SCFZ poll: James Bond

[MrCarmady]

The rules:

- i'll assume ballots are ranked unless you tell me otherwise. unranked ballots are fine.

- deadline for ballots: Sunday the 31st of October

we'll use the extended rules for this poll:

• if you have seen an odd number of Bond films, you can round up instead of down when determining the length of your ballot (e.g. if you have seen 7, you can list 4 films instead of the usual 3)

• if you have seen more than 10 Bond films, your ballot can extend beyond 5 films (e.g. if you have seen 13, you can list up to 7)
However, the max number allowed in total is 10 even if you've seen 21+.

[MrCarmady]

Seen 26 (I'm counting Casino Royale 1967 and Never Say Never Again and would also count the 50s TV adaptation of Casino Royale which I haven't seen)

Hoping No Time to Die will break the top 10, and might re-watch some, especially On Her Majesty's Secret Service which I feel like I'm underrating, but to get us going:

Goldfinger
Thunderball
From Russia with Love
Casino Royale 1967
The Living Daylights
Moonraker
Goldeneye
Live and Let Die
Spectre
Diamonds Are Forever

[flip]

i only seem to have rated 9 on letterboxd, though i know i've seen a few more than that. don't like bond films generally but these seem to be the ones i rated the highest:

Casino Royale (1967)
Casino Royale (2006)
Skyfall
The Spy Who Loved Me

[Monsieur Arkadin]

Seen 13 (If we count the 1967 Casino Royale). Loved these as a kid, but upon recently revisiting can't say any of the them are things that resonate with me too much.

On Her Majesty's Secret Service
License to Kill
The Spy Who Loved Me
Goldeneye
Casino Royale (2006)

I'm aware that I technically can list more than five... but I don't know if there are any others that I'd be comfortable listing. OHMSS is head and shoulders above the rest for me, but I quite like Dalton as bond. I'm an annoying contrarian that can't seem to stand any of the Connery outings.

[brian d]

i haven't seen the first "unofficial" one, but i think i've seen all but one of the rest.

skyfall
from russia with love
dr no
the spy who loved me
casino royale
on her majesty's secret service
thunderball
you only live twice
spectre
for your eyes only

[Roscoe]

GOLDFINGER
THUNDERBALL
CASINO ROYALE (2006)
FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE

I could list a lot more, but these are the best for me. The Moore/Dalton/Brosnan years are entirely disposable. I've pretty much bailed on the franchise since the excruciating SPECTRE, where the ChristopherNolanization of the series (pretentious, solemn, gloomy and gray, no fun or entertainment whatsoever) solidified, all this and Christoph Waltz to boot. Can't imagine I'll bother with this new one.

[Silga]

Seen 25

1. Skyfall
2. Casino Royale (2006)
3. From Russia with Love
4. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
5. Thunderball
6. Spectre
7. Dr. No
8. The Spy Who Loved Me
9. Goldfinger
10. Licence to Kill

I consider myself a big fan of Bond franchise and I can't wait to watch the new one. It will be interesting to see if No Time to Die could jump into my Top 10 as I considered Quantum of Solace for that spot, but ultimately went with Dalton's Licence to Kill just to have my Top 10 a bit more varied.

The rest of my Bond rankings:

11. Quantum of Solace
12. GoldenEye
13. The Living Daylights
14. You Only Live Twice
15. Tomorrow Never Dies
16. The World is Not Enough
17. A View to a Kill
18. Never Say Never Again
19. The Man with the Golden Gun
20. Moonraker
21. Diamonds are Forever
22. Live and Let Die
23. Octopussy
24. Die Another Day
25. For Your Eyes Only

Aside from the brilliant The Spy Who Loved Me, Roger Moore's outings as Bond are all bad to terrible, with For Your Eyes Only being the absolute worst in the series. John Glen's directing in this film was atrocious and the story was laughable and ridiculous. Felt like a rustic adventures of a James Bond impersonator. I'm glad that Bond franchise ditched that kitschy, ill-advised caricature character of Moore's Bond and went with a more serious and committed type, particularly with Daniel Craig's tenure.

Bonus question: What are some of your favorite Bond theme songs?

[ofrene]

seen 10

Skyfall
Casino Royale
Goldeneye
License to Kill

and 5th spot.. i don't know not a big fan of series
mixed about No Time To Die(definitely better that Spectre, though), enjoyed the first half but hard to engage the over-melodramatic second half(and too long!)

[...]

I mean if you like the franchise at all, the top one pretty much has to be Goldfinger doesn't it? From theme song to villains it pretty much defines the franchise.

Goldfinger
Man with the Golden Gun (The oddest entry in the franchise)
Dr. No (Not yet concerned with "franchise", offering instead its more mass market friendly twist on the spy genre of the era)
The Living Daylights (The first attempt to "reserious" the franchise into a more "adult" goofy spy movie allegedly befitting the new era)
On Her Majesty's Secret Service (Another odd one, maybe too much credit for it themes given how ludicrous the franchise is, but still)
Live and Let Die (The most Bond of the Bond films, everything amplified to its highest level, for good and bad, the racist elements the worst, but that's baked into the franchise and this is its maximum output.)
Die Another Day (I like Brosnan okay? Continued the Dalton trend but a bit bigger)
Quantum of Solace (The franchise at this point is trying to find reason to continue to exist by grittifying itself as part of a larger "dark" trend. To what end other than more Bond films? Who the fuck knows.)
GoldenEye (For the videogame obvs.)
A View to a Kill (Grace Jones and Christopher Walken trying to find something to do in a vacuum.)

I actually don't really like the franchise all that much, hence some of the choices being so off from it, but I've watched all but the latest one and can't deny finding the franchise's dogged continuing existence kinda fascinating and Goldfinger really does offer something that movies seem to look for but rarely can find.

[deepbluefunk]

seen 24

1. Golfinger
2. Skyfall
3. Casino Royale (2006)
4. From Russia With Love
5. Live and Let Die
6. Man with the golden Gun
7. On Her Majesty's Secret Service

[wba]

I’m a huge fan of the Bond movies and the Bond franchise and I love a lot of the films. About half of them I’ve seen at least half a dozen times, and I continue to return to them and enjoy rewatching them. The best Bond for me was Roger Moore, closely followed by Timothy Dalton. I also enjoy the other Bond actors, but though I love Sean Connery I don’t think he is a very good Bond (at least not my Bond) and though I adore Pierce Brosnan, his depiction went totally the wrong way: way too serious, when Brosnan is a great comedian and could have been another buffoon, another Moore-like Bond. That’s also why I love Moore’s characterization of Bond the most: he seems to be mostly a bumbling idiot who stumbles through the whole thing, holding a martini in his hand and not really knowing what is happening around him, and not really caring, either. Bond movies are not serious and are not tob e taken serious (at least not more so than any other movie) as they are mostly ridiculous and naive fun, in line with stuff like the Superman cartoons by Fleischer or films from the Pink Panther series.

Anyways, after studying them intensly over the last 30 years (I’ve also watched every new Bond at the theater since Dalton’s first outing) these are the best (with the best Bond directors being John Glen and Lewis Gilbert):

01. For Your Eyes Only (John Glen, 1981) - Moore
02. The Living Daylights (John Glen, 1987) – Dalton
03. Moonraker (Lewis Gilbert, 1979) – Moore
04. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service (Peter R. Hunt, 1969) - Lazenby
05. Live and Let Die (Guy Hamilton, 1973) - Moore
06. You Only Live Twice (Lewis Gilbert, 1967) - Connery
07. Spectre (Sam Mendes, 2015) - Craig
08. License to Kill (John Glen, 1989) - Dalton
09. A View to a Kill (John Glen, 1985) - Moore
10. Casino Royale (Martin Campbell, 2006) - Craig



And these are in my opinion the worst, some of them being objectively pretty bad movies as such (and most of them also pretty boring and forgettable, if they weren’t „Bond“ -movies):

Goldfinger
Dr. No
Thunderball
From Russia with Love
Skyfall
Die Another Day
Diamonds Are Forever


For the record, I've seen 25 Bond films (I haven't yet seen the 50s Casino Royale, the one with David Niven as Bond - probably the most perfect actor for Bond imaginable - and the new entry NO TIME TO DIE)


As for the greatest Bond theme songs (picking up Silga's suggestion), they are in my opinion consistently better than most of the films and I love love love almost all of them.
My Top 10 would probably be:

01. Sheryl Crow – Tomorrow Never Dies (1997)
02. Nancy Sinatra – You Only Live Twice (1967)
03. Shirley Bassey – Diamonds Are Forever (1971)
04. Sam Smith – Writing’s on the Wall (2015)
05. Duran Duran – A View To A Kill (1985)
06. John Barry & Orchestra, Monty Norman – James Bond Theme (1962)
07. Tom Jones – Thunderball (1965)
08. Sheena Easton – For Your Eyes Only (1981)
09. Adele – Skyfall (2012)
10. Paul McCartney & The Wings – Live and Let Die (1973)

[oscarwerner]

I `m a fan:) i have seen all films, including Casino Royale (1967) and Never say never again. My top 4 is still very clear to me. Other films are more difficult to compare:
1. Golfinger (1964)
2. Casino Royale (2006)
3. From Russia with Love (1963)
4. A View to a Kill (1985)
----
5. Diamonds Are Forever (1971)
6. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service (1969)
7. The Man With the Golden Gun (1974)
8. The World Is Not Enough (1997)
9. Thunderball (1965)
10. The Spy Who Loved Me (1977)

[Silga]

Answering my own question about Bond theme songs.

Just like WBA, I also like most of these songs.

My Top 10:

1. Garbage - The World Is Not Enough (1999)
2. John Barry Orchestra - On Her Majesty's Secret Service (1969)
3. Nancy Sinatra - You Only Live Twice (1967)
4. Shirley Bassey – Diamonds Are Forever (1971)
5. Adele – Skyfall (2012)
6. Duran Duran – A View To A Kill (1985)
7. Carly Simon - The Spy Who Loved Me (1977)
8. Paul McCartney & The Wings – Live and Let Die (1973)
9. Tina Turner - GoldenEye (1995)
10. Sheryl Crow – Tomorrow Never Dies (1997)

But I have to say that the last two theme songs are the worst of them all. Especially the one for No Time to Die. Though it may have something to do with the fact that no other musician puts me off as much as that Billie Eilish..

[nrh]

i have such a strange relationship to the bond movies - i've pretty much all of them up to spectre, many of them more than once, which means i've spent more time with the franchise than anything outside of zatoichi or godzilla. but i can't say i particularly love any of them; when i think about watching bond movies i think of being about 10 years old home with a flu and struggling to keep awake through the interminable underwater action sequences in thunderball or something. but at the same time there is a real quality of movies there...

you only live twice
on her majesty's secret service
from russia with love

and then way lower down the tier

the man with the golden gun
moonraker
quantum of solace

and i don't think i'd rate the rest. i do however love the sort of host of movies and tv and comics that seem to spring out of the bond formula - agent vinod (2012 version), danger man, modesty blaise (the comic strip), steranko's nick fury comics, chabrol's tiger films.

[wba]

Answering my own question about Bond theme songs.

Just like WBA, I also like most of these songs.

But I have to say that the last two theme songs are the worst of them all. Especially the one for No Time to Die. Though it may have something to do with the fact that no other musician puts me off as much as that Billie Eilish..

Great list! I think it's fascinating that so long a series had had so many really good theme-songs over so many different decades and musical styles. I used to not like or dislike many of them when I was a kid, but grew to enjoy most of them, some even immensely. As for the last two: I really, really didn't like that Sam Smith-song when I heard it the first few dozen times on the radio and such, but I fell in love with the song after watching Spectre numerous times at the cinema and thus began enjoying the song at the cinema with a more "open" attitude. Now it's one of my favorite Bond songs. The new one by Billie Eilish I haven't heard yet, and since I don't know Billie Eilish's music in general, It will be interesting to hear it the first time when I watch the film. Usually, I don't like the Bond songs when I hear them the first time.

[wba]

the interminable underwater action sequences in thunderball

these are the best parts of that boring and generally horrible film! I love all and any Bond-underwater sequences (actually any underwater-sequences in any film) and I think that all of the Bond-films would have benefitted immensely, if they had had many more underwater-sequences.

[FLABREZU]

Seen 26

1) The Living Daylights
2) From Russia with Love
3) Goldfinger
4) License to Kill
5) Casino Royale (2006)
6) Tomorrow Never Dies
7) On Her Majesty's Secret Service
8) Thunderball
9) You Only Live Twice
10) Octopussy

[MrCarmady]

i haven't seen the first "unofficial" one, but i think i've seen all but one of the rest.

skyfall
from russia with love
dr no
the spy who loved me
casino royale
on her majesty's secret service
thunderball
you only live twice
spectre
for your eyes only

seen 10

Skyfall
Casino Royale
Goldeneye
License to Kill

and 5th spot.. i don't know not a big fan of series
mixed about No Time To Die(definitely better that Spectre, though), enjoyed the first half but hard to engage the over-melodramatic second half(and too long!)

I'm assuming this is Casino Royale 2006?

[brian d]

mine is the 2006, yes

[deepbluefunk]

The Best Bond song of all time is Radiohead's Spectre.

For some ludicrous reason they decided to not use the track and went with another song - so Radiohead just released it on their own. In my books, it's still a Bond song.

[oscarwerner]

My favorite songs: top 13
1-John Barry & Orchestra, Monty Norman – James Bond Theme (1962)
2-Paul McCartney & The Wings – Live and Let Die (1973)
3-Shirley Bassey – Diamonds Are Forever (1971)
4-Duran Duran – A View To A Kill (1985)
5-Carly Simon - The Spy Who Loved Me (1977)
6-Tom Jones – Thunderball (1965)
7-Shirley Bassey –Goldfinger (1964)
8-Nancy Sinatra - You Only Live Twice (1967)
9-Louis Armstrong – On Her Majesty's Secret Service (1969)
10-Garbage-The World Is Not Enough (1999)
11-Sheryl Crow – Tomorrow Never Dies (1997)
12-Matt Monro – "From Russia With Love"(1963)
13-Adele – Skyfall (2012)

[ofrene]

I'm assuming this is Casino Royale 2006?

Yes

[greennui]

Been meaning to watch all of these as I've only reallly watched the Brosnan ones.

[wba]

Been meaning to watch all of these as I've only reallly watched the Brosnan ones.

That's a mammoth task, cause the films are all in some aspects very very similar (Bond gets an assignment, he's an arrogant prick, things go wrong, he has to save the world, and in between he has to sex-work a lot, seducing foreign agents/bad guys' sidekicks/ bad guy's lovers/etc. which usually doesn't work as planned, and which also partly explains why Bond is such a detached asshole - fucking and killing people for money isn't a nice job after all), which can get very repetitive and very tiresome, and then all Bond films blur into one long treatise on our fucked-up world. On the other hand most of the films are also very different in style, tone and execution, especially regarding their view on the whole shenanigans and if they treat the story as a comedy, a farce even or a tragedy, if they take the character serious or not, if they endorse or condemn what's going on, etc. etc. which varies wildly throughout the series and often throughout each single film.

In my opinion the Bond films are better served when watched seperately, as individual films, with enough time between each viewing and with no expectations at all as to how the character should or should not be treated and how the whole misogyny and patriarchy and capitalist shit on display should be depicted. And it's also best not to compare all of the Bond films between each other as much as one is tempted to do. With the many pitfalls and the "wrong" appraoch one usually just gets a limited sociological view of the whole phenomenon (which is rather pathetic in itself, as a phenomenon, I think - I personally have no clue why the Bond films ever got so popular and such huge successes, when there were hundreds of other similar spy films out there during the 1960s ). As individual films with individual directorial trademarks they work much much better, imo, and one gets much more out of them.

[greennui]

^ those are the reasons why I've never bothered with the series. I watched the Craig Casino Royale one as well but it just felt like one extended car commercial. I'm thinking that I would at least want to watch one with Connery and one with Moore.

[nrh]

(which is rather pathetic in itself, as a phenomenon, I think - I personally have no clue why the Bond films ever got so popular and such huge successes, when there were hundreds of other similar spy films out there during the 1960s ).

it's an interesting question. i'd say that the bond movies articulate a kind of fantasy in a very specific way that previous movies did not, and articulates that fantasy so clearly that for many years to come anything working in the same genre falls under the bond shadow. and we should say that it's not really the spy genre per se - the le carre novels or the harry palmer novels and movies (despite being produced by the bond producers, and with the significant eception of ken russell's billion dollar brain) don't exist in this universe at all, but a series like the avengers most certainly does.

the bond series really does bring an element of the fantastic that is missing from previous movies. i can't really think of anything quite like the ken adams set designs in dr no (a big part of why the spy who loved me and you only love twice feel like the most james bond like james bond movies to me - his set design starts reaching towards auteur status).

as to bond as detached asshole, this is a fundamental problem with the craig films - the minute you start treating bond as a character rather than a cipher in a suit moving through this movie construction the fantasy curdles into something repellant (as it is in the fleming novels!), which is interesting if you are aware of the problem but an issue if you (like the people who made the craig films) are not. in some ways i suspect my ideal treatment of bond would be something like how boorman treates lee marvin/parker in point blank...

[flip]

my nepehews are apparently interested in seeing a bond film, and i and my brother don't know the films well enough to know what would be appropriate. any suggestions? ideally it would be a fairly good bond film that isn't too sexist or too much about bond pursuing women or whatever happens in these films, probably should be something without long lulls too, so casino royale isn't ideal. thanks in advance for any ideas for ages 10-13!

[Silga]

I think that something like Thunderball might be suitable. Bond of course pursues women, but there are beautiful underwater scenes that work well regardless if it is a Bond film or not.

[wba]

my nepehews are apparently interested in seeing a bond film, and i and my brother don't know the films well enough to know what would be appropriate. any suggestions? ideally it would be a fairly good bond film that isn't too sexist or too much about bond pursuing women or whatever happens in these films, probably should be something without long lulls too, so casino royale isn't ideal. thanks in advance for any ideas for ages 10-13!

Sorry, I have no clue which ones could work, as I watched "all" my Bonds when I was 7 and 8, and loved them. So I think they are very good entertainment for kids. I don't know if these films work for teenagers, though.
I'd go with the Craig Bonds, as they are way less sexist than the older ones, if that's a problem. The shortest of all Bonds is QUANTUM OF SOLACE, by the way.

[Joks Trois]

Craig is no fun. He is a football player in a suit. Give me a camp and/or playful Bond! Connery was a boss and Moore was a loveable ham. Can take or leave the others.