1921 Poll 2.0

[greennui]

Two films by independent filmmaker Angela Murray Gibson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKyKdTR ... =emb_title

[sally]

are you reading this thread?

then here you are, queuing for the cinema in 1921! ♥

OPENING OF HAMILTON LA SCALA PICTURE HOUSE

https://movingimage.nls.uk/film/1600
(dunno if it's geoblocked)

[greennui]

I am, brushed up the lboxd page of The Crucified earlier.

[sally]

did you add a pic?? i grabbed a boob shot if you need it

[sally]

se parhaiten nauraa, joka viimeksi nauraa / it's the one that laughs best, which last laughs (teuvo puro)

no subtitles so not entirely sure of the plot beyond its brief description, however i like that our idiot hero ends up losing the girl (to rich sugar-daddy, her choice) but also i absolutely loved his beyond-manic energy, he's like a coked-up infant-mosjoukine

[niminy-piminy]

a boob shot

i also noticed.
and thus the claim (i encountered in the past) that "the first nude scene in the history of Czech cinema" is in the film "The Highwaymen of Chlum" (Miloš Hajský, 1927, the film materials are believed lost → https://www.filmovyprehled.cz/en/film/3 ... n-of-chlum ) is (obviously) not entirely true.

[greennui]

Found a poster but the boob would make a great backdrop

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

Just watched the restored copy of Fièvre with intertitles (my first Delluc) and was quite impressed by his visual style. Very distinctive use of lighting and depth staging, mixed with some striking close-ups.



Also saw a flash of naked boob which I was surprised to see in a relatively mainstream '21 film! The film was withdrawn on first release and censored, so it's unclear to me whether I saw the uncensored version or whether Delluc just slipped that in past their noses.

[sally]

wow, that restoration is quite something compared to the blurry mash i saw, and checking henri, i can see it's there along with an italian 1921, les dernières aventures de galaor, so thanks for the prompt evelyn!

looks like 21 is boob year

[sally]

arnold fanck's im kampf mit dem berge 1.teil is pure gorgeous mountain porn - there's no plot really and all the snow and ice gives it almost an abstract feel, but these climbing mountain films are far too stressful to watch

[ofrene]

The Kid
The Phantom Carriage
The Wildcat

Destiny
Seven Years Bad Luck
The Boat

Invisible Ink
Never Weaken
The High Sign

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

A Daughter of the Law (1921) - A modern short western starring/written by/directed by Grace Cunard, whose my new gay crush.

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

Thanks for recommending The Whistle, Lencho! Definitely my kind of movie. Confused bizarre curio about capital-labour struggles with some strong doses of melodrama. At its best, it has a pathos of a man corrupted-by-pain that resembles Lon Chaney Sr.

[sally]

it's civilization day! (meaning industrial, social, educational, advertising, news-reel and other non-fiction sort of 1921 snippety odds n sods i've got lying around)

there's....a lot...mostly uncredited, mostly dull, will only note the noteworthy, fairly visible ones here

firstly, one of the few with an imdb credit - 'the economist' - walter forde in a bow-tie being perplexed in a british light-bulb factory



then i'm sneaking out all the rest of the czech lot all at once - cinematography is def an art at this point, they're all nicely shot, if not so nicely preserved...

i went to a glass factory, a brewery, the workers olympics of the d.t.j.č (the czech workers gymnastic association) in prague (and particularly enjoyed this context-free shot of a man just panting straight at the camera for some seconds)



but the best one was:

rybářský den na dobříši / a fishing day in dobříš
https://www.europeanfilmgateway.eu/deta ... 1e09ab5c5e




very lovely, with harmonious happy ducks interludes, but tbh i still have no idea what exactly the fishing process was other than that to deceive the fish you had to impersonate the pond bed by covering yourself in as much icky mud as possible...

[sally]

zonsverduistering 8 april 1921

willy mullens getting a solar eclipse and feeding the film back to the public the same day, but he's such a doc-making pro by 1921, he doesn't just leave it at the sun, there's (humorous) shots of spectators, the 'effect' on animals, and just for mega-patriotism, the play of the eclipse on some tulips, which is a mad but pretty touch







(sunshine gatherers - george e stone)

bleugh!



(scene din voiajul principelui carol si al principesei elena de la atena la constanta)



(what happened to emile (cooperation & obedience): a film lesson in citizenship)

harrowing. brutal. don't watch. can't recommend.

[sally]

canadian diversion!

i've done mountain climbing, dinosaurs and more canning industry, but i wasn't expecting a propaganda piece for the school board to be genuinely good - the glorious snowy backdrops help, but the kids are so authentic & natural...

the rugged road to learning - john waugh

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

Oh wow, the history of education in my own province! I could well be related to some of those kids, for bet. or wor. Will have to make that my next '21 viewing.

[sally]

well it's not exactly a dramatic masterpiece but i don't think i've seen children so relaxed & earnest in front a camera for anything else in 21 so far....

and since i'm swinging by scfzer's domains, i've also spent some time in the newsreels at filmarkivet.se which, since they don't have intertitles, i'm imagining are pretty surreal successions of images, even for the natives.

can't decide if that's shadow or pubic hair, those are british warships (to think that only 16 years later they'd be stolen by the fairies!) and from what i can decipher, am fairly impressed with the swedish nonchalance of getting józef piłsudski, first marshall of #CoMoPoland to inaugurate a.....cyclepath

[niminy-piminy]

CEREMONY UNVEILING... 11/

despite (it might seem) all significant has already been said, we are still one step before one of the highlights of the whole series (i.e. the tale of the juvenile drug abuse & manhunt in the crooked streets of the historical center of the small town).

so the reader of the next installment would be able to fully savor all the drama of the upcoming manhunt, we need to get familiar with the phenomenon of "podloubí" or "podsíň" (arcade/archway) displayed in the film (under investigation) in the following two shots...


this type of arcade encircling (to a larger or smaller extent) the main square of a historical center, can be seen in several Czech town (besides Litomyšl, f.e. Svitavy, České Budějovice, Pelhřimov, Telč, Nový Jičín, Příbor, Domažlice, Jičín, Trutnov, Kroměříž, Hradce Králové, Žatec, etc.).
the main square in Litomyšl is the third-longest square in Czechia (493 meters long).
on one side of the square, the arcade goes full length (1-2), on the other side, about half-length (3-4)...


in Litomyšl, this urban regulation can be traced back to half of the 15th century when the progressive feudal owner of the town (sympathetic to Czech Brethren) issued a requirement that houses on the main square should (frontally) open with this semi-public space conducive to commerce (inhabitants of the town being able to indulge in consumerism regardless of the weather condition — be it rain or scorching sun rays).
because (in due course of time) several big fires consumed (repetitively) the main square and the houses have to be rebuilt, all these individual semi-public spaces have been joined together to the current extent (almost fully encircling the long main square).

and this "arcade game" is still not over!
relatively recently, the town witnessed a new addition (5-6) → https://lam.litomysl.cz/en/object/01-vp ... ing-arcade

despite (as already said) the main purpose of this type of arcade/archway is commerce (the well-being of the customer on rainy or too sunny days), this maze-like space becomes also an advantage when you are hunted by small-town cops (arcade (with all the pillars) is conducive to an easier disappearance) — viz the next installment.

[niminy-piminy]

tbh i still have no idea what exactly the fishing process was other than that to deceive the fish you had to impersonate the pond bed by covering yourself in as much icky mud as possible...

keep in mind this is a sealess country.
no wonder folks without sea are somewhat confused about how to catch a fish.
they know how to catch a butterfly in a meadow, so they enter the mud (as if entering the tall grass) and hunt fish (like hunting butterflies).

[niminy-piminy]

context-free shot of a man just panting straight at the camera for some seconds

similar flick(s) from 1920 → https://www.ji-hlava.com/filmy/vsesokolsky-slet

PRAGA CAPUT REGNI (Georges Thibaud, 1920)
SOKOL FESTIVAL AND CONGRESS (Georges Thibaud, 1920)

The film begins with a parade of Sokols joined by groups of Moldovan women in national costumes. Spectators are flooding the stands and President Masaryk is present, too. 12,000 falcons enter the stadium, performing gymnastics and building human pyramids. A group of Moldovan peasants shows traditional dances. (Praga caput regni = mostly/completely the same footage reordered)

"Sokols" (Falcons) and all their offshoots & predecessors were part of the local national revival movement.
founded by Miroslav Tyrš → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroslav_Tyr%C5%A1

His bad physical condition gave him an interest in sports. ... In February 1862, together with Jindřich Fügner, his father-in-law, he founded Tělocvičná jednota (Physical Training Union), which two years later adopted the name Sokol. ... As a born German he wanted the club to be open to all the nationalities, but Germans in Bohemia refused to be in the same club with Czechs, so Tyrš changed his mind and started promoting the new club as bringing the Greek ideal only to Czech people. He saw in his teachings a kind of opposition to the German "völkisch" virtues established by Friedrich Ludwig Jahn. ... He also introduced a Renaissance-like architecture of Sokol gymnasiums.

"Sokols" (Falcons) was/is a secular club of patriotic sportsmen.
its clerical alternative was/is "Orel" (Eagle) → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orel_(movement)
btw. Jaroslav Hašek (writer of Good Soldier Schweik) wrote some ironic & highly amusing short stories about catholic priests doing (under the "Eagle" banner) all kinds of silly & icky physical exercises (to surpass the godless "Sokols").

The Orel ("eagle" in Czech) is a Moravia-based Czech youth movement and gymnastics organization which emerged between 1896–1909 as Catholic Church-supported competitor of another Czech sport movement Sokol (founded 1862), oriented more nationalistic and rather anti-Catholic.

post-WW2 neo-Stalinist regime banned & appropriated Falcons & Eagles under its own banner of "Spartakiads" (something alike still exercised with great enthusiasm in North Korea) → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartakia ... oslovakia)

after 1989, Spartakiads were abandoned — and banned & appropriated Falcons & Eagles were revived.
there is a mildly ironic school film about french Sokols (Czech emigres in Paris indulging (out of nostalgia) in patriotic exercises)...

SOKOL DE PARIS (Rozálie Kohoutová, 2010) with Eng. subs!
https://vimeo.com/138954082

[sally]

and this "arcade game" is still not over!
relatively recently, the town witnessed a new addition (5-6) → https://lam.litomysl.cz/en/object/01-vp ... ing-arcade

woo-hoo! something modern!



and those windows on the end look like some sneaky thomassons!

keep in mind this is a sealess country.
no wonder folks without sea are somewhat confused about how to catch a fish.
they know how to catch a butterfly in a meadow, so they enter the mud (as if entering the tall grass) and hunt fish (like hunting butterflies).

oh my god! this is exactly what they are doing! they really really are! how wonderful! i love them.

and hašek is really poorly served in english translation. i have the bachura scandal waiting to be read but on quick glance the only sport it looks like it mentions is football...

[niminy-piminy]

this is the spot where (in the long past) was a gate (entrance to the main square and the town).
therefore it is quite narrow.
before the new arcade was created, one had to pass through the spot via very narrow sidewalks (cars passing along really close).
so, when this building (seat of the local post office) was reconstructed, one architect (not involved in the reconstruction) came up with the idea to sacrifice part of the building (on the ground floor) and create a new arcade (a safer passage).
after some negotiations (luckily the owner of the building is a public institution — the post office) it was done.
so, the house is not completely new (was only slightly polished to look more modern) but the arcade (going through) is brand new (never been part of the house before).

---------------------

Hašek's anti-clerical short stories were aggregated in a local edition (published in 1961) called "fialový hrom" (purple thunder).

73 stories on the Church and nobility

[sally]

i've also been doing some longer-form non-fic

just for rarity, this leisurely trip around rural portuguese industries (with also lovely countryside views) is worth watching although it descends into madness with some kind of endless car-crowd war and what looks like an anarchic, very drunk max linder (i cheered every time he leered at the camera)

A COVILHÃ INDUSTRIAL, PITORESCA E SEUS ARREDORES - artur costa de macedo (DP of os lobos, lisboa crónica anedótica etc, not that you'd really know it)
http://www.cinemateca.pt/Cinemateca-Dig ... type=Video

more interestingly, in that there's a direct comparison with the italian approach to post-world war unifying grief ritual, is the journey home from flandres of that country's respective unknown soldier

AS HOMENAGENS AOS SOLDADOS DESCONHECIDOS, also artur costa de macedo
http://www.cinemateca.pt/Cinemateca-Dig ... type=Video

portuguese one is fairly jovial & succinct....everyone seems to treat it as a bit of an excuse for a parade. of course they wheel the grieving mothers in black out at the end, but it's a quick journey by boat straight to lisbon and then it's hi to our friends (there's units of french, british and spanish military marching along)

thing that strikes most is that by 1921 the situation is already completely habituated to cinematographic reality.....there's the expectation and allowance of visual re-presentation later, so that everything already is performance rather than participation in ritual. in this time when the whole nation has cause for grief, they're already totally, comfortably, spectators of themselves...

joffre, and press contingent





the italian one on the other hand...



gloria, apoteosi del soldato ignoto

....is much much more serious. in that it seems entirely designed to be purely cinema. a gothic, morbid, d'annunzio excess cinema. the camera is given access privileges and can even direct spotlights in the sacred church spaces, it's outrageous. the coffin travels to virtually every city in italy via a specially constructed train carriage (trains! modernity! cinema! modernity!) thus splattering its mourning observance over virtually everyone in the country (venice looked tricky to be honest, i think they intentionally drowned a wreath for some unknown symbolism)



and not just getting the mourning witches at the end like portugal, they dragged them along the entire train journey so that they could weep in front of multitudes



and to underscore that power of the camera train combo, think this shot sums it up, doing what all kids do with their streaking fingers on car windows chopping down passing trees, only this time it's the flowers of death that seem to cast everyone to their knees as it passes them

(you can't really see it here, but moving it's very strong - before the flowers on the train everyone is standing, behind them everyone is on their knees)



and then at the end you finally get a close up of the coffin of the unknown soldier, and how nice, how much you've learnt italy, how not fucked up or aggressive italy, they've given him some hand grenades for the afterlife

[niminy-piminy]

speaking about a narrow passage, let's proceed to...

CEREMONY UNVEILING... 12/

this installment shows how an insignificant film scene can become highly evocative (can trigger plenty of vivid flashbacks).
watching the whole litomyšl flick was accompanied by extensive recollections but one particular scene surpassed the others.
it was this one...
some ppl are emerging along the wall of the little fore-garden of the Piarist Grammar School (1).
in the background can be traced the tower of the main square (4).




if you go along the wall of the fore-garden (in the recent past) or entrance (currently) of the regional museum (previously Piarist Grammar School), you follow the steep road (with a few stairs) that turns (right if going up, left if going down) in almost 90 degrees angle — i.e. at one point you don't see behind the corner and only 2 ppl can pass next to each other.

i mean this was the state in the beginning of the 1990s (when the tale of this installment happened) — then it looked something like this...


currently, it looks like this — there is no more fore-garden but the new building of the entrance to the museum and the road along (with a few stairs) was widened...


so, when i saw the aforementioned shot (with ppl emerging from this narrow road) suddenly i was (in my mind) in 1991/1992 and started to vividly recollect the day when i first smoked ganja.

after the restrictive commie regime collapsed in 1989, plenty of new books started to become published.
one of them was this one (the very first local book about ganja published post-1989)...


i was convicted that i read that book prior to 1991/1992 "incident" but, when i searched for the pic now, all the attached information (in various second-hand bookshops that offer it for sale) says it was published in 1993.
the author is a journalist that started his campaign for ganja legalization already at the start of 1990s, so it is likely i read (prior to the "incident") only his articles (maybe??? part of the book was published in a journal — prior to book publishing???).
in any case, (somehow or other) i got (from the guy who published that book) the know-how (in 1991 or 1992) about ganja gardening.
i shared my know-how with my then-best friend and he volunteered to acquire the seeds of cannabis indica (and he did so).
it might seem ridiculous (from today's perspective) that all of this was such a big deal.
but remember local commies (who ruled the country prior to 1989) were neo-Stalinist gerontocrats (not some cool woke acid communists) who considered (the same way as conservative U.S. republicans) ganja as dangerous as heroin, so 1989 was practically an "hour zero" (so, no wonder i started to acquire the ganja know-how only as a late teen and not sooner — as is usual nowadays).

so, we planted the seeds (in 1991 or 1992) in the garden of my friend's estate.
he lived on the very outskirts of the town (on the place beyond the map) — to reach his place, you would have to proceed along the road marked by number (2).
i lived in the spot marked by number (3).
somehow or other, his parents didn't protest against our gardening.
in the early 1990s, local students still held the aura of (velvet) revolutionaries and adults still felt ashamed of being discredited by the stupid totalitarian regime, so parents were maybe??? (for a moment) less inclined to question the "problematic" behavior of their teen offsprings (being still slightly disoriented by the recent turbulent events — not daring to say what is "right" & what is "wrong" after all their past blunder).

so (ultimately), our open-air home-grown ganja reached full bloom (unharmed) and we decided it's the time to harvest and start the journey of self-discovery (fuelled by entheogens).
we invited two more friends and in the suburb house of my friend we held a "harvest festival".
it means, we smoked the ganja, we cooked ganja and ate it like spinach and we drank ganja tea (residue of cooking ganja like spinach).
our open-air home-grown cannabis indica was probably not particularly strong but, due to our neophyte enthusiasm, we had a merry time.
"harvest festival" took place the whole afternoon and when the evening came — and i was supposed to return from the spot (beyond 2) to spot (3) — my friend suggested i take some full-grown (i.e. nearly 2 meters tall) ganja plants with me.
again, it was the early 1990s (the old regime was in ruins and the new regime had not emerged yet) — we felt "anything goes".
so, i grabbed two tall ganja plants, placed them on my shoulder and we walked (i was accompanied by my friend who said he needs a little evening stroll) downtown.
it was a very warm summer evening, the good people living in Litomyšl's suburb were moving their lawns, chatting on the porches, etc., etc. while we two youngsters (representatives of the local avantgarde) were passing along proudly with two big plants of ganja — being convinced that all these good people have no clue yet about the ganja (and its miracles).

thus we reached the spot that is pictured in the aforementioned shot of the film.
we were moving in the opposite direction than the ppl in the film and when we reached the narrowest spot (the moment the road turns almost 90 degrees left and one can't see who is behind the corner) suddenly (due to some weird coincidence) two municipal cops! stumbled upon us (they were walking in the same direction as the ppl in the shot).
we passed next to them — we and them had to step somewhat aside cuz only two ppl could pass next to each other in the narrow spot.
when we were already a few steps behind their backs, they finally started to sniff some crime and called at us, "hey boys, wait a minute!"
i was still convinced they have no clue i carry on my shoulder two big plants of marijuana.
my first thought was they suspect me of committing some act of vandalism in the nearby castle garden (later to become unesco heritage site).
so, i shouted back (without stopping to walk), "it's okay, it's just a weed."
i mean, i said in Czech "plevel" which means "weed" but the Czech word "plevel" is not synonymous of marijuana (as in Egnlish) — i was not that stupid to tell them it is THE "weed".
i was convinced i am calming them down by assuring them i didn't rip off any valuable plants in the castle garden.
well, you know, if you are a teen (and moreover you just smoked, ate & drank ganja for the first time) you think "differently".
fortunately enough, my friend was more oriented in reality and mumbled at me, "throw it away!"
which i instantly did and we started to run.

at that time i was a member of the local athletic club (was good at short tracks of 100, 200, and 400 meters), so i was able to run faster than 100 percent of the local municipal cops (because none of them was a member of the local athletic club).
i was fast runner, my dwelling was approximately 400 meters away, i was able to take advantage of the local (maze-like) arcade of the main square, so no wonder i escaped — my route is the black line from the spot (1) to spot (3).

on the other hand, my friend was not at all into sports.
so, when i was safe at home, i was sure it is still futile because (in my opinion) he was caught, gonna be interrogated (maybe tortured) and thus is just a question of time when the doorbell will ring and the two local municipal cops will ask for me.
so, i was awaiting my arrest while lying in the bed and going through a nearly sleepless night.
now, again, it was only the early 1990s, i.e. no mobile phones, no internet — to immediately figure out if my friend escaped or not.
i had no means to get to know until the next day.
i don't remember anymore if it was me who dared to go to visit him or if he dared to visit me — to inform me he escaped too, following the black-line route from point (1) to point (2).
in any case, for the next 2-3 weeks i was totally paranoid (like never before and never after) and left my home only dressed like Kenny from Southpark (being shit scarred i will stumble upon those two municipal cops again and they will recognize me).
after 2-3 weeks, i gained back the confidence to go out unveiled.
and till now i have a zero criminal record.
tho, my friend then told me that in the local newspaper (in a criminal column) was a short notice titled "Marijuana has been detected in Litomyšl".
i never saw those newspapers, so i have no clue if it is true and if i can truly claim the official primacy in the history of the local "ganja-abuse".

so, sometimes it happens that one watches a minor silent short film from 1921 and, suddenly, he has to relive the drama of his coming of age!

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

Remarkable story, jiri! Always nice to learn how the movies connect to lives.

[niminy-piminy]

thanks, Evelyn!
this was certainly the most adventurous annotation (of the film under investigation) i can offer.
however (despite that), this series of "unveilings" is still far from being complete!
i almost think i will have to proceed in the next month too.
i can't tell all that is still haunting me (related to that particular film) within a single (upcoming) week.

[sally]

häidenvietto karjalan runomailla / karelian wedding in the land of the kalevala - a o väisänen
watch: https://elonet.finna.fi/Record/kavi.elo ... 22?imgid=2

there's several versions of this ethnographic study of karelian wedding customs floating around - i went quality over having a clue so the one i watched was subless. in my opinion this was the better option because then i didn't know what was going on and everyone appeared engagingly, cheerfully insane (there was breakdancing, assault with loaves, plague houses, foot dung-slathering, tramp-inveigling, chaotic arson, & the giddily enthusiastic father of the bride appeared to barter a price for his daughter and then decide she wasn't worth that much and gave some back)


-------------------------------------------------------



(just some horses eating a grave)


aus syrien und dem heiligen lande
watch: https://www.filmportal.de/video/aus-syr ... igen-lande

yes it's the colonial appropriating eye, so yes it's gorgeous (the journey into petra is a descent into dreaming)








but the main point is that our unnamed cameraman was a very relevant monomaniac of the podsíň! (pl.?)
so in this disneyfied, exoticized version of the tale, our jiri-hero is smuggling opium, not weed, his friend is a donkey, and the canny police manage to capture, torture & execute him (the cinema-industrial complex must enforce their hypocritical moral authority, plus there's money in making the girls cry)

[niminy-piminy]

podsíň! (pl.?)

podsíň (nominative, singular) / podsíně (nominative, plural).
tho "podsíň" is only a regional expression, the general term is "podloubí".

nominative: podloubí (sg.) / podloubí (pl.)
genitive: podloubí (sg.) / podloubí (pl.)
dative: podloubí (sg.) / podloubím (pl.)
accusative: podloubí (sg.) / podloubí (pl.)
vocative: podloubí (sg.) / podloubí (pl.)
locative: podloubí (sg.) / podloubích (pl.)
instrumental: podloubím (sg.) / podloubími (pl.)

so in this disneyfied, exoticized version of the tale, our jiri-hero is smuggling opium, not weed, his friend is a donkey, and the canny police manage to capture, torture & execute him (the cinema-industrial complex must enforce their hypocritical moral authority, plus there's money in making the girls cry)

ji-r.i.p.

[sally]

*slopes away defeated by czech fortress of too-difficult language*

but i do love me a pure 1910's black-hood secret criminal gang (with lengthy sea chase) movie, even if it is 1921

hyänen der welt. 1. opfer der hyänen - fred stranz




back to 1921 proper, and it's all about 'emotions' now - modernist text touches flashing over images, bohemian-isms, the gradual ratchet of hysteria, until, good lord, even in a british production (co-dutch tho, so that may explain it) the man is so fraught in his nadir of gloom he neglects to shave! also evelyn brent does the best laughing to evil fuck you eyes i've ever seen. slightly ruined by the stupid, sappy, put everything right ending, but that's your stuffy british for you.

laughter and tears - b e doxat-pratt
(not to be confused, although even imdb does, with the film 'circus jim', also british-dutch co-pro, also directed by and starring same people)




was albrecht dürer's bday on 21st and someone posted the detail from a self-portrait of his identification with the suffering of christ in the guise of a jesus-tree window-cross reflection in his eye



but i'd much prefer to have lovers kissing in mine





....and speaking of torture, i dunno what they get up to in georgia (aside from poetic revolutionary murders of generals called gryaznov) but i don't think i want to find out actually