Everything is Political

[kanafani]

Post to this thread when you get an urge to discuss politics.

Don't be a jerk. Don't insult others. Stick to ideas, don't make it personal.

God have mercy on our souls.

[pabs]

God bless America. (I don't believe in God, but there you go.) I hope things go well for America over the next four years. Things can only get better.

[rischka]

Things can only get better.

i ... am not sure that's true but thanks for your wishes. you guys wait til gleode finds this

[St. Gloede]

Haha, trying to avoid these ones as much as possible actually...

[rischka]

lol sorry gleode

[MrCarmady]

I am something of an accelerationist. I was honestly hoping Trump would get reelected. Would probably have supported Sanders over Trump but no one else, especially not Biden. Biden is actually worst case scenario, a war-mongering, carceral neoliberal who will pay enough lip service to progressive causes to satisfy the smug libs and undermine those actually fighting for freedom. Trump was radicalizing people by the masses. And libs were caught in a situation where they either support antifascists burning down police stations or sided with Trump, and for the most part stayed out of it. Lest we forget, Obama sent in the National Guard to quell protests in Ferguson, and CNN didn't make a peep... In that sense it's better to have a Nazi like Trump as the enemy than it is to have some centrist who, say, terrorizes people fighting for indigenous and black liberation, but gives the whites some half ass healthcare plan so the mainstream calls him a progressive (which I've always wondered by the way: do nutters like liQuidnature -- capitalization intentional -- realize that actual anarchists and communists consider Obama/Clinton/Biden to be rightwing extremists?)

Also there exists a real argument that Obama was more deadly than Trump. Trump definitely kills (through negligence, action, or trickle-down policy) wayyyyyyyy more Americans than Obama ever did...but he doesn't kill as many Central/West Asian children with drones, you have to give him that. Not because he cares, or is in any manner/consideration less evil than Obama but simply because he's too busy calling black people sons of bitches than he is to go fucking around the rest of the world the way Obama, Bush, Clinton, other Bush and Reagan all did. There's also the long view: Trump as president weakens America. In like a kinda thought experiment way, I think you can probably argue that America will kill less foreigners in the year 2050 than they would have had Clinton beaten Trump. Again, not because they won't be as bad morally (Trump has possibly irreversibly destroyed the slow progression that the collective American moral compass was making) but because they won't be as powerful, militarily, economically or otherwise

It's an interesting take but I disagree. Even if the stuff about radicalising the left is true, which I don't necessarily buy because people are radicalised by their lived reality of insurmountable college and medical debt and widespread social and economic inequality between races, classes, and generations best exemplified by the housing market, you completely ignore the fact that Trump has shifted the Overton Window way to the right and has emboldened the MAGA maggots into thinking their white supremacist beliefs are mainstream and accepted. So for every leftist who joins DSA or protests against the cops or whatever (and Ferguson happened under Obama so I'm not sure ACAB is even a party issue), you get a right-wing cunt who thinks might is right and his twisted worldview is popular and acceptable. If anything, there was so much wasted energy on the left now trying to unite behind Biden who clearly doesn't give a shit about them, when if Hillary had won, they could have been campaigning about the stuff that actually matters.

[flip]

i might at least be open-minded to this accelerationist idea were climate change not such an urgent threat. arriving at a just society doesn't matter much if we're all dead, is how i see things.

[rischka]

and also -- that idea is usually raised by people who aren't in a position to be hurt in the ensuing shitstorm. jus sayin

[kanafani]

https://twitter.com/michellelegro/statu ... 9176982531

[Holdrüholoheuho]

a landscape gardeners, located between a crematorium and a dildo shop

Near a Catholic School, car auction place, McDonalds, crematorium, porn shop, and jails.

[Silga]

I'm happy for Harris. I know a lot of people here and around the US have negative opinion of her, but I, for one, even at that horrible night in November 2016 was convinced that Harris will be the nominee in 2020. I wasn't sure about Biden coming back to politics after he didn't run in 2016 and Harris seemed like the most logical choice of all.
I think it is 99% that Biden will be a one-term president and Harris is likely to lead the democrats in 2024. I wish Biden/Harris great 4 years and success in restoring faith in US, both internationally and at home.

[Silga]

For me this last month only provided hope in the future of politics.

Here, in Lithuania, the most important parliamentary election was held last month and, after four years, we were able to get rid of Trump-like, very socially conservative populist figures from the government and, now, will have a coalition of three liberal-leaning parties - and, by the way, all led by women, with one (1st from the left) set to become the next prime minister. And while avoiding to call any quotas, she still promised that women will make up a significant number in the next government. A great turn from the previous one where in 14 ministries only one was headed by a woman.

[FLABREZU]

Trump explicitly campaigned on not shying away from targeting civilians with drone strikes, did more drone strikes than Obama, expanded battlefield designation to allow broader targeting, rolled back transparency on civilian casualties, etc: https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/22/ob ... ngs-count/

[---]

hm. that's fucked! i never rly saw his war-mongering criticized in news. i guess maybe he was doing enough fucked up shit at home to overshadow it

[Lencho of the Apes]

The fact that I haven't seen that information literally anywhere, makes me wonder how impartial a source that foreignpolicy site is.

Either way, only one person here ever expected anything but the worst from Trump in the first place, and "Trump did it too" isn't an adequate answer to people who were angry about Obama's warmongery during his term, or the warmongery to come from Biden when he tarts building on Obama's legacy.

[Holymanm]

i might at least be open-minded to this accelerationist idea were climate change not such an urgent threat. arriving at a just society doesn't matter much if we're all dead, is how i see things.

this - i haven't heard the word "environment" mentioned one single time in the last 5 days of news, commentary, journalism, twitter trolling, or any other fascinating colloquy, and i want to punch everyone i see talking about "the economy" in the mask. i'm sure your economy/job/children/grandchildren/human rights/foreign policies/playstations/free speech/legal psilocybin/[insert other issue here] will be doing GREAT when half the world is underwater and bands of cossacks and vikings and thugs* have teamed up to kill you for your clean drinking supply. yeah that's right, even your playstation will be fucked**

* in the indian sense
** scenario is dramatic exaggeration; obviously we'll all be dead from nuclear wars before the coastline situation develops that far

[Holymanm]

...and yes, what really makes me want to knock off noggins is how 99% of people seem to think that cleaning up the environment and going green will somehow be *bad* for jobs and the economy. species is doomed. i should watch more anime before it's over

[Holdrüholoheuho]

"environment" legal psilocybin

unless masses will be first drowned in acid and thus made receptive to pantheism they will ignore rising sea level even if the salty water will be reaching up to their necks. without a shift of paradigm in drug policy humanity is doomed. don't rely on the rationality of mankind.

[Holymanm]

jiri your recent "political" posts have been my favourite thing i've ever seen on this board... and i actually do agree with this ^ in the sense that a "holistic approach" - creating kinder, more rational, and less selfish & cynical citizens, whether through education or reduced poverty or whatnot - is probably the only way to get anyone to care about the environment.

would psychedelics help with any of this? ...probably? couldn't hurt!

[Lencho of the Apes]

"The environment" would be more compelling as an argument against accelerationism if we had any confidence that Biden would do 'enough' toward addressing those issues.

I used to be dead-set against the philosophy (in the 80s I lost faith in the FMLN over that very issue) but thee days I'm not so sure. A lot of people are going to back to sleep now, satisfied only with having a President who doesn't pour ketchup all over everything on his plate and can be trusted not to try to pinch Angela Merkel's nipples.

We should have formed those Beautiful Green study cells while there was still time...

[Umbugbene]

@holymann... very much agreed about the urgency of climate change.

Silga, what is the general mood about the U.S. election in Lithuania?

Something just occurred to me: When Trump was a child did he have a sled named Covfefe?

[Silga]

Silga, what is the general mood about the U.S. election in Lithuania?

I'd say it's evenly split. Young people who follow the news more thoroughly are pro-Biden while others, who still associate current GOP with the Republican party of the late 80s when Reagan was seen as someone who forged a war against Soviets, support Trump without any understanding that this is no longer the same party. (I am no fan of Reagan btw). Also, in 2002 George W. Bush visited Vilnius and expressed support for Lithuania's membership in NATO. He also came to ask for Lithuania's alliance and help in Afghanistan and Iraq. (Lithuania ended up sending troops and special forces to Afghanistan). On the wall of the historical town hall in Vilnius there is a plaque with the quote Bush said during his visit - "“Anyone who would choose Lithuania as an enemy has also made an enemy of the United States of America”. That sort of populism, coupled with some prominent 'political experts' of the time pushing for this idea of 'only republicans will stand against Russia for Lithuania', formed the idea that republicans are more useful to Lithuania in the international politics. After some time I got bored telling everyone that this is just Bush talking what others want to hear and you just wait for the next Republican president for this bubble to burst. Sure enough, it didn't take much time for people to realize that after the 2016 election with clear Russian meddling, all these Republican politicians led by Moscow Mitch succumbed and stood silent, only looking for what's best in their interest.

A few days ago our former president Valdas Adamkus spoke about the US election and I loved everything he said. Adamkus emigrated to the United States in 1949 and became a US citizen. He later worked to establish EPA in the Great Lakes region and was administrator of the region for almost two decades. He was an active member of the Republican party and worked in the EPA under six White House administrations before coming back to Lithuania in 1997 to become a two-term president. He said that no politician has ever betrayed the political integrity and trust like Trump. He defies everything that international politics expect from the leader of the US and that he is incapable to deliver both internationally and domestically.

I always supported Democrats since the first election in 2000 that I remember understanding at least a little bit. And when 9/11 also marked a significant point in my life and I remember, that even for an 11 year-old it was a sobering moment. I'd even say that it was some kind of coming-of-age thing, even if I was thousands of miles away from it. It sort of made me realize that regardless of where I'm living, all of this affect me as well. I'm happy that during that time I didn't fall for the rhetoric of the Iraq war. The local public opinion at the time was 99% in support of the US actions. I remember being a sole objector among pretty much everyone I knew. I felt like Michael Moore when he was booed on the Oscar's stage for what he said in 2003. Things sure have changed in Hollywood since. Not sure about the common opinion here. Lithuanians aren't keen to accept that they were wrong.

Also, Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin is a Lithuanian-American and I am glad that he was just re-elected for another term.

[Umbugbene]

Thanks for such a thorough answer. I feel like I share your viewpoint 100%, and I consider Lithuania a valuable friend to my country. Valdas Adamkus lived in the Chicago area the same time I did; I'm trying to remember which suburb, somewhere around Hinsdale or Brookfield. I'm happy to say I voted for Durbin in this election, and I also donated to Amy McGrath who ran against Moscow Mitch.

[greennui]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8VMkUs85Dg

[Holdrüholoheuho]

would psychedelics help with any of this?

from my previous (not only) political posts, it might seem i am permanently on drugs. but it needs to be elaborated. i smoke weed very rarely (i don't smoke nicotine cigs, so i am not used to smoking and thus even smoking pot is not completely comfortable to me). i ate psychedelic mushrooms once (and looking forward to eat them again). and that's it. my whole drug history. BUT i am a vivid reader about psychedelics and from reading a book about DMT i learned that brain (pineal gland specifically) is producing endogenous DMT...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethyltryptamine
In the 1950s, the endogenous production of psychoactive agents was considered to be a potential explanation for the hallucinatory symptoms of some psychiatric diseases; this is known as the transmethylation hypothesis. Several speculative and yet untested hypotheses suggest that endogenous DMT is produced in the human brain and is involved in certain psychological and neurological states. DMT is naturally occurring in small amounts in rat brain, human cerebrospinal fluid, and other tissues of humans and other mammals. In 2011, Nicholas V. Cozzi, of the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health, concluded that INMT, an enzyme that is associated with the biosynthesis of DMT and endogenous hallucinogens, is present in the primate (rhesus macaque) pineal gland, retinal ganglion neurons, and spinal cord. Neurobiologist Andrew Gallimore (2013) suggested that while DMT might not have a modern neural function, it may have been an ancestral neuromodulator once secreted in psychedelic concentrations during REM sleep, a function now lost.

considering my "natural" affinity to surreal, irrational, subconscious i am convinced my brain (amygdala) is microdosing me with DMT. thus i don't need to kiss frogs or chase dealers to get "high". i am just quite introspective. however, the majority of the ppl are rather extroverted and thus only some Merry Pranksters with their barrels of acid can "bring them back to senses". last time humanity was receptive to progressive values (including intense care about the environment) were 1960s and i am completely thoroughly utterly convinced it was due to widespread psychedelics. and i am convinced once the psychedelics will be back in grand scale we have "60s" back and neoliberal delusion (with its commercialism and commodification of anything and everything) will be over. ofc all this might even happen due to some "spiritual" awakening (ppl will start in grand scale doing yoga, get locked in dark chambers experiencing sensual stimuli deprivation, will start doing long-distance walking pilgrimages, dervish dancing, etc. etc. etc.) but i would rather rely on acid (based on "60s" precedent). then i don't doubt PEOPLE'S PARTY will have enough voters. otherwise, i am rather skeptical.

[rischka]

https://twitter.com/OkSteev/status/1325 ... 36421?s=19

[Holdrüholoheuho]

others, who still associate current GOP with the Republican party of the late 80s when Reagan was seen as someone who forged a war against Soviets

i guess, this myth of "Reagan (GOP) the liberator (liberators)" is wide-spread in all the post-Soviet satellites (including Bohemia).

FEARLESS LEADER (Willie Varela, 1985)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7565538/
https://vimeo.com/231865345

[flip]

"The environment" would be more compelling as an argument against accelerationism if we had any confidence that Biden would do 'enough' toward addressing those issues.

if you're saying we're probably fucked either way, i agree with you. we probably only avoid catastrophe if there's some scientific breakthrough that lets us mitigate the effects. no one knows if we'll make that discovery, but we increase the odds if we can buy a few extra years. even if biden won't do enough to reduce emissions so that problems won't happen (and even the most aggressive policy at this point couldn't accomplish that), he should at least buy us a few more years than trump would.

it's kind of a pascal's wager situation, where the stakes are essentially infinite. even if something is a longshot, when you win an infinite amount if you're right and lose a finite amount when you're wrong, you bet on the longshot. or at least you do if you agree with pascal.

[Lencho of the Apes]

This doesn't contribute anything to discourse, but it's so cute I had to pass it on...

3 ceci.jpg (22.65 KiB) Viewed 4857 times

[Holdrüholoheuho]

niece speaking about her psychopathic uncle...
https://youtu.be/_98infWoIT0