SCFZ poll: Noah Baumbach

[flip]

Polling the films of director Noah Baumbach

The rules:

- your list can include no more than half of the Baumbach films you've seen, up to a maximum of 5. So if you've seen seven of his films, for example, you can list only a top 3. It's only if you've seen ten or more of his films than you can list the maximum of five.

- i'll assume ballots are ranked unless you tell me otherwise. unranked ballots are fine.

- deadline for ballots: next Friday, in seven days, whatever day that is

- if anyone is watching films for these polls, then i'll extend the deadline up to three days, if someone requests an extension

- next poll: whoever posts the first ballot in this thread is free to nominate the director we poll next, unless you've nominated in this round already (everyone should get a chance). Already nominated this round: umbugbene, greennui, evelyn, bure

umbugbene created an index on letterboxd of all of our previous polls here: letterboxd.com/umbugbene/list/index-of-all-scfz-director-polls/

one rule for nominees: at least 3 scfzers need to have seen 10+ of a nominee's films, or at least 4 scfzers need to have seen at least 8 of the nom's films, so if it isn't clear if that will be the case, we'll confirm that's true before moving forward

if 24 hours pass after a poll opens, and no one eligible to nominate has posted a ballot, then i'll nominate someone, and then we'll start over, and everyone will be able to nominate again

[flip]

not sure if we should use extended rules, considering baumbach has made fewer films than most directors we poll, i'll wait to see how varied the ballots are before deciding

[flip]

i really don't like any baumbach films i've seen, but i'll vote anyway, seen four

Greenberg
Frances Ha

[Senor Arkadin]

I like post-Gerwig baumbach more than the OG-baumbauch. I also have a personal annoyance at him naming his first child Rohmer. But I’ve quite enjoyed several of his films nonetheless.

Marriage Story
Frances Ha
Meyerowitz Stories

[...]

Margot at the Wedding

[MrCarmady]

As I mentioned, I'm a huge fan. Baumbach is both great at skewering privilege and being rounded enough to make us empathise with his characters, who are in many cases somewhat insufferable. The Rohmer influences are clear, and while he doesn't have Rohmer's highs or his insanely prolific output, Baumbach is a pretty worthy indie Hollywood successor to the master. All of these movies both made me laugh and moved me to various extents, even the two that didn't end up making my list.

Frances Ha
Kicking and Screaming
Mistress America
The Squid and the Whale
---
Marriage Story
The Meyerowitz Stories

Gonna try to get to 10, at least.

[therouxxx]

Mistress America
The Meyerowitz Stories (New and Selected)
Greenberg
Kicking and Screaming

[St. Gloede]

Seen 7:

The Squid and the Whale
Margot at the Wedding
Kicking and Screaming

[Holymanm]

not a director i'm supremely interested in... but do (or did) love TSATW

The Squid and the Whale
Kicking and Screaming

Seen 4

[Curtis, baby]

seen 12

Kicking and Screaming
Marriage Story
Mr. Jealousy
Meyerowitz Stories
Frances Ha

[Curtis, baby]

before there was some talk of needing to be 30 to get movies or whatever

i think that's true for some movies. i think a 10 year old and a 30 year old can both take a lot from SPIRITED AWAY, but i think you need to've lived life to appreciate baumbach's films. that, for me, is one of the primary differences between him and rohmer. he's a little grittier, a little less paris and a little more new york i guess you could say

[Silga]

Seen 4:

While We're Young
Marriage Story

[nrh]

i often find rohmer comparisons baffling (i saw a bunch of people comparing hong to rohmer this weekend which is really strange for any number of reasons) but find them genuinely baffling when it comes to baumbach. was it just because rohmer's name came up a lot in the press tour preceding margot? or is it really so rare we get a relatively prolific director who makes movies predominately about relationships that they get the rohmer comparison by default?

putting aside the fact that i don't see baumbach making a lady and the duke or a triple agent or a percival any time soon the only thing i can see in his work is a certain strain of mid century new yorker style literary fiction, a youthful woody allen obsession, a weird self pitying autobiographical streak and an affinity for a kind of mild cringe comedy that puts him among 90s figures like solondz and daniel clowes on one end and lena dunham on the other.

[MrCarmady]

Hong and Rohmer - both made shitloads of movies that are similar to each other and deal with relationships, but each one showcasing different characters with different motivations and while liking one is a good indicator that you will enjoy a good deal of the rest, Hong and Rohmer aficionados will have strong, different opinions on which ones should come out on top. That's about where the similarities end, though.

As for Baumbach, I've seen almost all Rohmer films but not the ones you mention. Woody Allen is definitely a good comparison point, but I think your criticisms are otherwise reductive. I think the main thing that binds them is talkiness as both a way for the films to connect to their audiences but also for the characters to build a certain view of life that they try to get across to people around them, while simultaneously not really fully believing in what they're saying. That goes for Gerwig in Frances Ha, for Eisenberg in The Squid and the Whale, for Eigeman in Kicking and Screaming, and it certainly goes for most of the moral tales / comedies and proverbs cycles, where people are constantly tested and forced to define themselves against what is expected of them. Baumbach is also generally less overtly comedic than Allen but always finds a light touch even when things get bleak. I'd lump him in with Stillman, maybe, or something like Listen Up Philip. I should watch some Solondz, though.

[Curtis, baby]

i don't think the comparison runs through either of their entire filmographies, but Rohmer from like 81-87 (Comedies & Proverbs + Four Adventures), i see so much of that influence in Baumbach's 2007-2015 output... he's kinda getting away from it now, but there was a time when it was just young demi-affluent people hanging out, drinking, talking about life and relationships... there are lots of key differences, the grittiness as i said, but also the late capitalist american economic urgency vs french socialist nigh apathy towards work... baumbach is no rohmer, he doesn't do nearly the stuff rohmer does with colour for instance. more of a rohmer style writer than a rohmer style director

[FLABREZU]

seen 2

the squid and the whale

[ofrene]

seen 4

Marriage Story
Frances Ha

[oscarwerner]

Seen 5.
1. Marriage Story (2019)
2. The Squid and the Whale (2005)
Not a fan. I think he is overrated.

[thoxans]

was gonna say i'd seen only one-and-a-half baumbach's, until i double checked my boxd, and saw that i've seen three-and-a-half apparently. totally forgot i'd seen the squid and the whale back in the day, then remembered i didn't much care for it. also totally forgot that he co-directed that de palma doc, then remembered it wasn't worth remembering. remembered watching the meyerowitz stories, which i guess has been the best(?) of the three i've seen in full, but i also don't remember much about it. and frances ha would be the half. and i'm sorry. i just couldn't. cringe to the point of creating actual tangible physical discomfort. just all the worst aspects of the worst stereotypes of the worst sort of people of the worst generation (so far). absolutely nothing likable about even one of them, made even worse by a lack of self-awareness, and an inability to be clever and/or critical. there's more character, warmth, and wit (ha) in forty-five random seconds of whit stillman's metropolitan than there was in the forty-five minutes of frances ha that i was able to will myself through. maybe, if someone told me the movie ended with a jonestown massacre-style mass murder suicide, i'd bother finishing it one of these days. maybe

[Curtis, baby]

Worst generation is definitely boomers bro

[thoxans]

they get a reprieve cuz they're dying off. sadly, we'll be stuck with the frances ha's of the world for a looooong time

[sally]

i was going to up my baumbach count from zero for this poll but you guys are really putting me off. luckily when i picked up the while we're young dvd for pennies in a charity shop it had the delish adam driver on the cover so you're going to have to try harder

[Monsieur Arkadin]

i was going to up my baumbach count from zero for this poll but you guys are really putting me off. luckily when i picked up the while we're young dvd for pennies in a charity shop it had the delish adam driver on the cover so you're going to have to try harder

Plus it's got Charles Grodin who is always worthwhile... and particularly good in that film.

[nrh]

2007 - 2015 baumbach is just him making a grotesque mid life crisis movie where the only joke is that ben stiller is a rich guy from new york which is weird when your with rich people from la. then he ingratiated himself with the swanberg crowd (producing alexander the last), dumped his wife for greta gerwig, and made a few "hey fellow kids" movies. i do admit i stopped watching after i couldn't deal with frances ha (that modern love sequence is all time embarrassment) but who knows.

edit - i did see one sequence from meyerowitz stories which was so badly written and staged i was kind of in awe of it...

[Mauries]

Seen 7, all kinda meh except

Marriage Story

[john ryan]

Seen 10

1. Frances Ha
2. Marriage Story
3. Margot at the Wedding
4. The Squid and the Whale
5. The Meyerowitz Stories (New and Selected)

[wba]

Apparently I've seen one, cause Adam Sandler, which was ok.

[flip]

.

[flip]

baumbach's next project, per imdb, is writing a live-action barbie film to be directed by greta gerwig.

results

1. Marriage Story (2019) -- 17 pts
2. Frances Ha (2012) -- 14 pts
3. Kicking and Screaming (1995) -- 11 pts
4. The Squid and the Whale (2005) -- 10 pts
5. The Meyerowitz Stories (New and Selected) (2017) -- 7 pts
6. Margot at the Wedding (2007) -- 6 pts
6. Mistress America (2015) -- 6 pts
8. Greenberg (2010) -- 4 pts
9. Mr Jealousy (1997) -- 3 pts
10. While We're Young (2014) -- 2 pts

[flip]

I like post

m. arkadin, you can pick our next director if you like!