SCFZ poll: Walter Hill

[flip]

Polling the films of director Walter Hill

The rules:

- your list can include no more than half of the Hill films you've seen, up to a maximum of 5. So if you've seen seven of his films, for example, you can list only a top 3. It's only if you've seen ten or more of his films than you can list the maximum of five.

- i'll assume ballots are ranked unless you tell me otherwise. unranked ballots are fine.

- deadline for ballots: next Friday, in seven days, whatever day that is

- if anyone is watching films for these polls, then i'll extend the deadline up to three days, if someone requests an extension

- next poll: whoever posts the first ballot in this thread is free to nominate the director we poll next, unless you've nominated in this round already (everyone should get a chance). Already nominated this round: greg x, wba, greennui, umbugbene, ofrene, mesnalty, john ryan, silga

umbugbene created an index on letterboxd of all of our previous polls here: letterboxd.com/umbugbene/list/index-of-all-scfz-director-polls/

one rule for nominees: at least 3 scfzers need to have seen 10+ of a nominee's films, or at least 4 scfzers need to have seen at least 8 of the nom's films, so if it isn't clear if that will be the case, we'll confirm that's true before moving forward

if 24 hours pass after a poll opens, and no one eligible to nominate has posted a ballot, then i'll nominate someone, and then we'll start over, and everyone will be able to nominate again

[flip]

Southern Comfort
Deadwood: "Deadwood"
Johnny Handsome
The Long Riders
Trespass

seen 15, ordinarily wouldn't include a tv episode that isn't on letterboxd, but the first deadwood episode is one of the best things ever televised so i can't leave it out

[Silga]

Watched four more after nominating. I now have 20. Still haven't seen Streets of Fire and Broken Trail. I plan to watch both before deadline.

Hill made some bad films (Red Heat, Bullet to the Head, Wild Bill, Undisputed, Supernova (if one holds the final product as Hill's).

But the one film of his that disappointed me the most - Hard Times. Expected a lot more, but it's just a dull and unimaginative story of a vagrant fighter.

I also wanted more from The Driver. It's really beautiful to look at, but, overall, it could have been much better.

Johnny Handsome is the one I might need to re-watch. Could be that fifth choice for a Top 5. I appreciated Rourke's performance and Hill's approach to the story, but something just didn't align in the end to make it a truly memorable experience.

I think Walter Hill excelled with his one-two-three punch with The Warriors (1979), The Long Riders (1980) and Southern Comfort (1981).

But the most unexpected surprise from Hill is his last movie - The Assignment (2016). A b-grade trash film on the outside, it has great directing coupled with well-structured story, aided by precise editing and that feel of a cult film.

I like what Roger Ebert once said: "Walter Hill specializes in myths, in movie characters who seem to represent something greater than themselves."

Hill is not credited as director on Letterboxd for Broken Trail, maybe because it's a mini-series.

[MrCarmady]

Seen 2, both good but gonna vote for

The Long Riders

And have Streets of Fire downloaded so hopefully watch one or two more before the deadline...

[Holymanm]

Only seen The Warriors; didn't really get the appeal... would've been a lot better had the entire thing been about the baseball gang in it. Now that is compelling content!

[oscarwerner]

Seen 18. My votes go to:
1-The Warriors (1979)
2- The Driver (1978)-so clean Melvillian style and spirit. No wonder Isabelle Adjani played here.
3-Southern Comfort (1981)
4-The Long Riders (1980)
5-Brewster's Millions (1985)-i had fun. Perhaps i enjoyed the problem-how to spent money:)

[mesnalty]

Seen 2:

1. The Driver

[brian d]

seen 3 4

the driver
last man standing

[john ryan]

Seen 17

1. The Driver
2. Southern Comfort
3. The Long Riders
4. Streets of Fire
5. Extreme Prejudice

Due for a Southern Comfort rewatch. I've always appreciated its positive depiction of my people in Louisiana.

[Caracortada]

Seen 4.

1. Brewster's Millions
2. 48 Hrs.

[...]

Hill is a director I tend to think of as more interesting than good exactly, I mean he is an "auteur" in the way he tells and shows the stories of his films, perhaps even more so than someone like Preminger who didn't seem as concerned with what his movies said as he was their efficiency and craft, but the stories in their push for myth can tend towards broad effectiveness while being more troubling or even empty in more detailed inspection. Still, early on he showed some facility for developing a strong enough sense of setting and basis of character from their activity that the films sometimes work best when they are least focused on the main plot concerns. I give Hill a little extra credit to Another 48 Hours for being a sequel that sort of undermines the feel good aspects of the original and draws out more of the underlying racial tension rather than just trying to ride a major hit to continuing payday by placating the audience with a broad duplicate of the first movie, which was already too light spirited for its alleged theme.

Another 48 Hours
Southern Comfort
The Warriors
Trespass
The Long Riders

[---]

only seen 5, but 2 are among my all-time favourites

UNRANKED BALLOT

Southern Comfort
The Driver

[Roscoe]

I'd vote for precious minute or so of David Patrick Kelly inviting the WARRIORS to come out and play, one of the great moments in all of cinema, more than for the rest of the movie or for the rest of the Hill I've seen.

[rischka]

the warriors
the long riders
hard times

never seen the driver

[MrCarmady]

Just watched Streets of Fire and really badly wanna give it some points because there's so much to like about its visual style and the musical scenes, but it can't displace The Long Riders so looks like I'm gonna have to watch more Hill.

[Joks Trois]

But the one film of his that disappointed me the most - Hard Times. Expected a lot more, but it's just a dull and unimaginative story of a vagrant fighter.

I'm the opposite. To me it's the best Hill film for its depression era atmosphere and Bronson's performance, as well as the rawness of the fight scenes. It like that it's more 'naturalistic' in style, for lack of a better word.

The Long Riders never grabbed me. For me it lacks the pleasure of the 'classical form' of traditional westerns and the intelligence and daring of revisionist westerns. It's neither. Just middling.

I give Hill a little extra credit to Another 48 Hours for being a sequel that sort of undermines the feel good aspects of the original and draws out more of the underlying racial tension rather than just trying to ride a major hit to continuing payday by placating the audience with a broad duplicate of the first movie, which was already too light spirited for its alleged theme.

Interesting. Not a popular view of this film at all. The consensus seems to be that it's a slick and uninspired commercial vehicle made solely for money and that it lacks the gritty hard edged appeal of the original. I do prefer the original, but the sequel is more skillfully made from a technical perspective and it's better paced. I've always felt it was underrated.

Hill actually felt that he improved as a director with time, but his films after the mid 80's or so tend to either ignored or undervalued. Trespass was probably his best work after the 80's, but I can't help but feel that it would have been more impactful if it was made 10 years earlier. The script was written in the late 70's I believe.

Seen 20.

Hard Times
The Driver
The Warriors
48 Hours
Southern Comfort

[...]

Yeah, if memory serves, the things some reviewers complained about Another 48 Hours were the things I found most interesting. 48 Hours is decidedly the more audience friendly film, where Nolte and Murphy have a more genial give and take in their needling each other, selling it as annoyance, but having it played more for laughs, while the sequel is more willing to play up the bitterness and distance between the characters and their lives, with the jokes being more cutting than funny. The sequel though does of course require the original to really get fullest effect as it reverses the dominant perspective on events from Nolte's to Murphy's, as the character who is out of their element acts as something of the audience surrogate for understanding the setting as we get to know it as they do, while the other character acts out of familiarity. The sequel kind of explains something about the first movie in that way, which is kinda nifty.

I agree with you on both Hard Times, at least to an extent, Bronson's character and the setting were really solid, I didn't find Coburn and their relationship as successful though, and I think you're right that The Long Riders does sit in an odd little niche for not being either a traditional western exactly, both for coming out too late for that to make much sense but not really fitting into a revisionist stance or the later attempts to return to tradition. It sits somewhere on its own, notable mostly for its casting, which I found to be more effective than just a stunt, but others seemed to lean more towards the latter. Hill's got his own way with violence and myth, clearly indebted to Peckinpah and Ford, but off on his own little tangent.

[St. Gloede]

Seen 12.

The Warriors
The Driver
Streets of Fire
Southern Comfort
Hard Times

[Joks Trois]

while the sequel is more willing to play up the bitterness and distance between the characters and their lives, with the jokes being more cutting than funny. The sequel though does of course require the original to really get fullest effect as it reverses the dominant perspective on events from Nolte's to Murphy's

I enjoyed their more aggressive exchanges too, but the reversal you speak of was probably largely a result of Murphy's superstardom. Between the first and second film, he became the most successful actor in Hollywood. It's only natural that the sequel would place more emphasis on him.

Another thing I like about the sequel is the way it begins too. Won't say more in case I 'spoil it'

[...]

I enjoyed their more aggressive exchanges too, but the reversal you speak of was probably largely a result of Murphy's superstardom. Between the first and second film, he became the most successful actor in Hollywood. It's only natural that the sequel would place more emphasis on him.

I don't think that it, at least for me. Another 48 Hours doesn't follow the Beverly Hills Cop mode, the more usual one, for superstardom, where Murphy's character can demonstrate equal dominance no matter whether he is in Detroit or Beverly Hills, which is the more pleasing fantasy as it places the emphasis on the character as exceptional in his cop powers and places white audiences at ease. Another 48 Hours puts more emphasis on Murphy's character's discomfort in Nolte's cop surroundings and through that prods the audience to have to deal more with the dynamics of race and power. I don't mean of course it's some in depth deconstruction of Hollywood values around race and cops, it is still a commercial entertainment first and foremost, but it doesn't really let the audience enjoy the movie in the same kind of blithe comfort as Beverly Hills Cop and its sequels thanks to Hill's focus on setting in determining character action. It's something he does in Southern Comfort, Trespass, and somewhat more controversially in The Warriors as well, to somewhat different but aligned purposes. (Some of his other films kinda go that way as well, less successfully, like Red Heat, or allowing too easy attachment for the audience as in Geronimo.)

[wba]

Great guy!

My favorite masterpieces from Hill are:

01. Streets of Fire (1984)
02. The Driver (1978)
03. The Warriors (1978)
04. The Long Riders (1979)
05. Broken Trail (2006)

Hill seen: 12

[thoxans]

the warriors
deadwood: "deadwood"
johnny handsome
the long riders

*seen nine (still need to see hard times, southern comfort, and streets of fire, just to name a few that i'm interested in)

[flip]

Seen 2

i forgot to ask for our next director - mrcarmady, you can pick who we poll next if you like!

[MrCarmady]

Nice! Let's do Preston Sturges - I've got 9 and could use a couple of re-watches.

[flip]

preston sturges will work for sure, i've seen all but the major thompson one, will start that poll now!

[---]

only seen 5, but 2 are among my all-time favourites

UNRANKED BALLOT

Southern Comfort
The Driver

so i've seen 6 now. watched brewster's millions. it's good, but it actually allows me to add the excellent streets of fire

flip, my question, any thought to allowing ties within ballots? e.g.

Southern Comfort 2.5
The Driver 2.5
Streets of Fire 1

? just curious if that's something you'd consider allowing

[flip]

flip, my question, any thought to allowing ties within ballots? e.g.

Southern Comfort 2.5
The Driver 2.5
Streets of Fire 1

? just curious if that's something you'd consider allowing

yeah, i'm cool with that if people want to do it on rare occasions, since it doesn't give a ballot any more weight than it would normally have.

it if happened a lot that people wanted to assign unusual point totals to various films, that might complicate the tallying, and so i might not like that, but i can't imagine that will happen.

[Silga]

I've watched Streets of Fire and it was amazing! It seems like I've saved the best for last. Gloriously orchestrated Rock 'n' Roll fable from 'Another Time' and 'Another Place'. I'll probably skip Broken Trail for now. I already have too many westerns lined up.

Final ballot:

Streets of Fire
The Warriors
Southern Comfort
The Long Riders
The Assignment

[nrh]

hard times
johnny handsome
the driver
streets of fire

i get why it does't play for a lot of people but hard times is one of my favorite films of the '70s in general, the only american film of the period i've seen that captures to me some of the same strange spirit of a tennessee's partner or a naked dawn.

there are actually many i'd like to watch or rewatch, may try to do so even after poll closes.

[MrCarmady]

Sorry to keep doing this but would love an extension till tomorrow to watch The Driver.