SCFZ poll: Michael Mann

[flip]

Polling the films of director Michael Mann

The rules:

- your list can include no more than half of the Mann films you've seen, up to a maximum of 5. So if you've seen seven of his films, for example, you can list only a top 3. It's only if you've seen ten or more of his films than you can list the maximum of five.

- i'll assume ballots are ranked unless you tell me otherwise. unranked ballots are fine.

- deadline for ballots: next Friday, in seven days, whatever day that is

- if anyone is watching films for these polls, then i'll extend the deadline up to three days, if someone requests an extension

- next poll: whoever posts the first ballot in this thread is free to nominate the director we poll next, unless you've nominated in this round already (everyone should get a chance). Already nominated this round: oscarwerner, greennui

umbugbene created an index on letterboxd of all of our previous polls here: letterboxd.com/umbugbene/list/index-of-all-scfz-director-polls/

one rule for nominees: at least 3 scfzers need to have seen 10+ of a nominee's films, or at least 4 scfzers need to have seen at least 8 of the nom's films, so if it isn't clear if that will be the case, we'll confirm that's true before moving forward

if 24 hours pass after a poll opens, and no one eligible to nominate has posted a ballot, then i'll nominate someone, and then we'll start over, and everyone will be able to nominate again

[flip]

Thief
Manhunter
Ali
The Insider

seen nine

[flip]

first person to post a ballot (besides oscar and greennui), please feel free to nominate our next director!

[mesnalty]

Seen 6:

1. Miami Vice
2. Thief
3. Heat

I'll suggest Shirley Clarke (I've got 10+), but I'll think of a backup as I suppose it's unlikely we'll have the views. There are a bunch of shorts streaming on the Criterion Channel though so it should be easy enough to get to 8...

[grabmymask]

Heat
Miami Vice
Manhunter

[Roscoe]

Seen enough to vote. None of them are worth even typing the names. One of the most extravagantly overpraised directors out there.

[flip]

we can definitely check on shirley clarke - if anyone else has 8+ seen, please post here!

[brian d]

seen 8

last of the mohicans
public enemies
the insider
collateral

[Caracortada]

Seen 7.

1. Thief
2. Heat
3. The Last of the Mohicans

Worst: Collateral

[...]

Thief
Ali
Collateral
The Jericho Mile
The Last of the Mohicans

I'm never gonna get the hardcore Mann fandom, there's too much dumbassery even in the pretty to get me to go down that path, with the worst of them being almost unbearably dimwitted. I mean blackhat has to be one of the worst scripts to ever be taken seriously by anyone and the imagery, by that point of his career, is its own cliche. But some of his earlier films aren't bad, and a couple are downright solid, even as his the animating philosophy behind them isn't exactly sophisticated. Cops and crooks are a lot alike! Still, things like the way he works the transference between Cruise and Foxx in Collateral is captured well and some of Ali is better than I could have hoped to expect, which makes me wish he had worked outside the criminal mind crap more often, at least until I remember The Keep. I'll give Thief full credit for being at the forefront of a change in aesthetic and attitude that happened in the 80s, in a good way, even though a lot of what followed from that wasn't so hot. I don't really dislike Mann or find most of his movies to be without some interest, which is more than I can say for a lot of his contemporaries, but I gotta admit my reaction to him is partly a reaction to the vulgar fandom that I think champions his films way out of proportion to their value. Sorry vulgarians.

[---]

seen 2

1. Collateral

[mesnalty]

And Michael Haneke will be my backup option

[wba]

Mmmm, Mann! One of the greatest!!


01. Thief (1981)
02. The Last of the Mohicans (1992)
03. Heat (1995)
04. Public Enemies (2009)

Mann seen: 4

[therouxxx]

blackhat
the insider
heat
miami vice

[josiahmorgan11]

Seen them all,

1. Miami Vice
2. Collateral
3. Manhunter
4. Public Enemies

I could vote for a fifth, but this feels right as is. I don't feel strongly enough about the rest. The fifth-place vote would be Ali. Love him most of the time but just can't stand Bl*ckh*t or Th**f really at all.

[liquidnature]

One of the great directors, in my humble opinion.

Seen 6, love all of them. Blackhat is high on my watchlist.

Manhunter (1986)
Miami Vice (2006)
Thief (1981)

[nrh]

miami vice
blackhat (theatrical cut)
the insider
the last of the mohicans
manhunter

won't hear of this keep slander either! somehow the only ones i've never warmed to are heat and collateral (there is a lot to like but can't take the action heavy last act at all).

[rischka]

blackhat
manhunter
thief

need to rewatch some of them lol. i have only 4 shirley clarke

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

Agree with greg's assessment. The imagery has becomes its own cliche, and the cops-crooks two sides of the coin theme is a surface with little depth to plumb. That's enough to make him an interesting enough high-end genre director, for sure, (and I enjoy engaging with vulgar auteurist discourse even to disagree, so the fact that vulgar auteurists write about him adds an additional layer of interest for me) but Mann's definitely not a great director in my book.

Seen 5.

1. Collateral (2004)
2. Miami Vice, Pilot Episode: Brother's Keeper (1984) [feel free to discount, it's on Letterboxd as a movie, for some reason, but it is a just a long first episode of a TV show; recommended in any case as a revealing document of the origins of Mann's themes/style]
2. Public Enemies (2009)

[nrh]

if the non-michael mann directed miami vice episodes counted (and he didn't direct any of them, or any crime stories or robbery homicide divisions) my list would be 3 of those and maybe miami vice and manhunter.

as it is it's hard to see exactly where his auteur control starts and ends - all 3 of his major series definitely feel like auteur works in some weird way. the crime story pilot is probably just as strong as brother's keeper, but ferrara's presence (rightly or wrongly) make it feel harder for me to count it as purely a mann film.

[flip]

2. Miami Vice, Pilot Episode: Brother's Keeper (1984) [feel free to discount, it's on Letterboxd as a movie, for some reason, but it is a just a long first episode of a TV show; recommended in any case as a revealing document of the origins of Mann's themes/style]

in general, i'm happy to count shorts, tv episodes, etc, anything a director directed (at least if there's a letterboxd entry for it), but i wasn't planning to count votes for non-directing work. i don't know much about mann or what he did for the miami vice tv show; imdb lists him as an executive producer of the pilot, but not as the director. if he was only an exec producer, i wouldn't want to count the vote, but if he was an uncredited co-director not listed on imdb, then i'd be happy to count it.

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

Right-o, thanks, I'll remember that going forward ! Yeah, I forgot Mann didn't direct Brother's Keeper but just produced it. I'll change my #2 to Public Enemies.

[john ryan]

seen 12

1. heat
2. collateral
3. last of the mohicans
4. thief
5. miami vice

[wba]

I can't stand those "vulgar auteurist" idiots, and Michael Mann certainly hasn't anything to do with them, as he's a classic, reactionary auteurist like Bergman or Antonioni and all those other guys.

[greennui]

Blackhat
Manhunter
Miami Vice
Collateral

[josiahmorgan11]

for what it's worth, i, too, think the miami vice TV pilot is quite excellent and never really bothered going further with it. don johnson is awesome in the new watchmen pilot too and i'm looking forward to the upcoming HBO/mann joint

[ofrene]

seen 9

The Insider
Heat
Collateral
The Last of the Mohicans

[St. Gloede]

I kept reading "Anthony" Mann

Seen 9, and while none of his films really stand out I can still vote for (all 7+):

Heat
The Insider
The Last of the Mohicans

[Silga]

Michael Mann is one of the greats. I admire his unreservedly controlled, very nuanced, calculated style. Mann's great ability is to stage scenes where mise-en-scène itself speaks and informs about the characters. He has made one of the best transitions to digital film-making of his contemporaries. Also his use of blueish colors is a beautiful trademark.

Seen 10:

Heat (in my Top 10 of all time)
The Insider
Thief
Miami Vice
Manhunter

[oscarwerner]

Seen 11:
1. Heat (1995)
2. The Last of the Mohicans (1992)
3. The Insider (1999)
4. Manhunter (1986)
5. Thief (1981)
Michael Mann is not well known by wide audience. Loved by people, who like old fashioned film noirs. I like crime drama, film noir and neo noir. I like those old fashioned existentialist stories about gangsters and policemen. Mann is telling those stories with modern design in cinema and TV. And yes-he shows how to bring Melville cinema to digital era.