Everything is Political

kanafani · Post by **kanafani** » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:00 pm

Unholymanm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:59 pm "Zionism" = the idea that Jewish people, however you define "Jewish", should have their own state, where they can be fully autonomous (whether it's in The Holy Land or anywhere else, though this is now moot).

The state of Israel was founded on the ethnic cleansing and dispossession of a people who already lived in that land. It is a state that treats its own Arab citizens as second-class citizens (or third-class, whatever) based on the fact that they are not Jewish. It is a state that keeps stealing land and dispossessing more Arab-Israelis and Palestinians via settlement building. It is a state that essentially forces the people of Gaza to live in an open-air prison. An apartheid state does not have a right to exist, no. In an ideal world, Palestine/Israel should be a secular state where all citizens (Muslims, Christians and Jews) are equal citizens enjoying equal rights under the law. As long as Israel clings to its Jewish identity, and views its own Arab citizens as a demographic threat, then it shall remain an apartheid state, which no decent human being should accept or tolerate. I can't accept that the Jewish people have the right to their state if it is at the expense of the liberation and self-determination of the Palestinian people.

Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:20 pm

Unholymanm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:59 pm "Zionism" = the idea that Jewish people, however you define "Jewish", should have their own state, where they can be fully autonomous (whether it's in The Holy Land or anywhere else, though this is now moot).

i might be rephrasing what bure asked above, but if someone believes religion and government should be separate, is it unreasonable to be opposed to the existence of a country based on religious identity, regardless of the religion? i'm asking that as a question, because it is a genuine question.

i know the historical circumstances make the whole issue complicated, and i suppose i generally support creating nations to protect persecuted groups, but not because i believe the world should have nations defined by religious or ethnic identities, but purely as a utilitarian way to prevent persecution. so along those lines, i'd defend the existence of a humane (i.e. different) israel, but also of a palestine or a kurdistan etc. but i'd rather that there just wasn't persecution to begin with.

of course all that leads to the question of what criteria, speaking theoretically, should be used to determine national borders, if there should be borders at all. it seems weird to me that i've never really thought about that question, so now i guess i will, but if anyone has any ideas, they would interest me!

Holymanm · Post by **Holymanm** » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:59 pm

I'm as wary of "whataboutism" as anyone - if you can only defend your bad position by pointing out how other positions are bad too, then you need to wake up and smell the proverbial Arabian coffee... but when you have this situation, as I mentioned, in which people are calling for the dissolution of one single country -- out of all of the evil and transgressional and oppressive and reprehensible countries in the world -- for its poor behaviour and practices (or for its religious/ethnostate foundational ethos)... then you really need to compare it to other nations, and not just look at it on its own, no? (No? Correct me if I'm wrong!)

So, at the risk of tackling more than I can as someone who doesn't really know anything about anything...

kanafani wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:00 pmThe state of Israel was founded on the ethnic cleansing and dispossession of a people who already lived in that land. [...] It is a state that keeps stealing land and dispossessing more Arab-Israelis and Palestinians via settlement building.

Yes - but, and not to sound flippant, isn't this the case with virtually every single country in the world? At the very least, the USA and Canada, let's say. Should they be dissolved as nations too? Regarding the "expansion" aspect, the most obvious recent example is Russia and Crimea: that was horrible, of course, and serious sanctions should be placed on them and pressure mounted to get them to give up that land (in theory; I don't know much about avoiding provoking a war and blah blah) - but are people calling for Russia to no longer exist as a country?

kanafani wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:00 pmIn an ideal world, Palestine/Israel should be a secular state where all citizens (Muslims, Christians and Jews) are equal citizens enjoying equal rights under the law. As long as Israel clings to its Jewish identity, and views its own Arab citizens as a demographic threat, then it shall remain an apartheid state, which no decent human being should accept or tolerate. I can't accept that the Jewish people have the right to their state if it is at the expense of the liberation and self-determination of the Palestinian people.

This was brought up by a few people, of course - the stuff about it being a religious state. But... umm... really?

Is Israel the only religious nation in the world? Stolen from wiki, states with an official religion:

Spoiler!

So could someone please explain why Israel is an evil ethnostate and these other countries aren't? Why does Israel have to be made secular; why can't it be a Jewish country when all of these other countries can be Christian or Muslim or Buddhist? No one seems to be calling for Iran to give up its statehood based on its being a theocracy (that is 100x more religiously repressive with its citizens than Israel)...? I'm 0% religious myself, but I don't really get it.

Holymanm · Post by **Holymanm** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:06 am

Regarding everything about apartheid, no, I completely agree. At the risk of being simplistic, from everything I gather and from my experience there and with Israelis (Jewish and "Arab") before, during, and after: Israel is a nation of some bad people and some good people, like any other, but with egregiously militaristic successive governments that continue to perpetrate horrible crimes, and then provoke retaliation that allows them to commit further crimes, against Palestinians. The country itself is, by and large, very liberal - there are gay clubs everywhere; all the young Israelis I know are into drugs and sex and peace and love and inclusion (including with Arabs). So why does it put up with these absurd governments and their treatment of Palestinians? Some combination of lingering fears of existential threats mixed with old, conservative generations voting for old, conservative war-mongers? I don't know......

But "anti-Zionists" aren't saying that Israel should be taken to task, should be pressured and sanctioned and made to stop evil national policies toward oppressed people - they're saying it should cease to exist as a country. That's where innocent young lads like myself start to be a little confused by what looks like insane double standards. Sure, Israel should be dissolved as a nation for doing bad things - right after the USA, Canada, Russia, Turkey, Albania, Guatemala, Syria, France, Italy, Germany, Poland, Hungary, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Iceland, Japan, China, Korea, India, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia . . . . . etc.

Sorry for the long post(s); in short, I just still don't get what makes Israel obviously, blatantly, and egregiously worse than every single other country in the world - to the point where no one questions any other country's right to exist, and only Israel's. Eh?

Holymanm · Post by **Holymanm** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:19 am

Err, the main point I wanted to make: if you think evil/oppressive states (like Israel, if you so think) shouldn't exist... then what does this have to do with "(anti-)Zionism"? Anti-imperialism, anti-evil-countryism -- heck, even anti-Israelism -- but what do 1. Israeli apartheid, and 2. A Jewish country existing or not, have to do with each other? Israel does evil things, therefore (you) don't think a Jewish state should exist?

It bamboozles me a little...

kanafani · Post by **kanafani** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:38 am

Unholymanm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:59 pm So could someone please explain why Israel is an evil ethnostate and these other countries aren't? Why does Israel have to be made secular; why can't it be a Jewish country when all of these other countries can be Christian or Muslim or Buddhist? No one seems to be calling for Iran to give up its statehood based on its being a theocracy (that is 100x more religiously repressive with its citizens than Israel)...? I'm 0% religious myself, but I don't really get it.

Speaking for myself, I feel strongly about Israel and Palestine because it concerns me and has defined me personally. I was born and grew up in Beirut. There are hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who live in Lebanon, all descendants and victims of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Some of the ones who physically went through it are still alive. Many Palestinian families still have the keys to their original homes. Many are my friends. Israel occupied about a third of my country for decades. During my lifetime, Israel invaded Lebanon, and shelled and occupied my city. It launched at least 2 more major wars against my country in my lifetime. The only time in my life that I saw my father cry was when he was watching footage of the Qana massacre on television. I have many friends who lost their homes in Israeli air raids. The village my grandfather was born was under Israeli occupation, and was the site of a notorious Israeli prison where countless Lebanese were tortured. So this is all personal to me. Many Arabs (Muslims, Christians, secular, leftists, religious people) feel solidarity with Palestinians and have strongly identify with their cause. Of course I'm going to feel more strongly about Israel than Myanmar or North Korea or Iran. That doesn't mean I don't care about those other injustices. It's not part of who I am like this issue is. And putting all that aside, it is not true that there are hundreds of ethnostates in the world in 2020. Israel literally forces millions of people to live in apartheid conditions. Palestinians are humiliated and die on Israeli checkpoints every day. Believe me, I hate the governments of Saudi Arabia and other Arab dictatorships with burning passion, but there's only one apartheid post-colonial state in the Middle East. Western leftists can chime in if they'd like, but I suspect that the fact that Israel is an outpost of western, European post-colonialism sets it apart from others.

Post by **flip** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:31 am

Unholymanm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:59 pm So could someone please explain why Israel is an evil ethnostate and these other countries aren't? Why does Israel have to be made secular; why can't it be a Jewish country when all of these other countries can be Christian or Muslim or Buddhist? No one seems to be calling for Iran to give up its statehood based on its being a theocracy (that is 100x more religiously repressive with its citizens than Israel)...? I'm 0% religious myself, but I don't really get it.

i'm not sure if this is directed at people here, or if it's directed at people you've seen outside this forum express a certain view of israel. but at least in my case, everything i said about israel applies equally to any other theocratic country, and i only spoke specifically of israel because that was the country people were talking about. mind you i didn't say any country should be dissolved, so you probably weren't talking to me anyway.

Monsieur Arkadin · Post by **Monsieur Arkadin** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:53 am

My concerns with Israel are personal. I lived in the West Bank under Israeli occupation. My friends, and former students still live there. People I taught couldn't study abroad because they weren't citizens of anywhere. Every single student I taught had a friend or family member who was either killed by the IDF, assaulted violently, or languishing in an Israeli prison (without charges). I regularly had guns pointed in my face simply for travelling to work. Me and my students were tear gassed by the IDF for (I am convinced) no reason other than to remind us who is in charge. Even in Jerusalem, every time I was there I'd see an Arab stopped and forced to show his Identification papers to one of the many armed teens wandering around.
I am opposed to this type of apartheid and injustice anywhere. I am primarily interested in Israel's war crimes because they are happening right now, to my friends and people I care about. I don't think it's a double standard... there are just a LOT of Palestinians in the world and they still have no state. They live in limbo. Israel isn't a country built on injustice, it's one that is currently still in the process of perpetrating it. The people in exile in refugee camps can still come home. 72 years isn't really that long. That's a big difference from almost every other country.

To answer the last question, Zionism has to be looked at under the lens of what it actually is in practice, which is unacceptable. If there are Zionists who believe there should be a Jewish homeland that isn't historical Palestine, I have no problems with that. If there are Zionists that believe in a one state solution in which the Palestinians are granted the same right of return they feel they are owed, I am fine with that. But I have yet to hear anyone espouse those views. Zionism today is colonialism and apartheid. Zionism in 1928 wasn't necessarily the same thing.

--- · Post by **---** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:04 am

Why do I say I'm an anti-zionist, instead of an anti-imperialist?

I say both, but also...

When I tell people I support Land Back, they never accuse me of being anti-Canadian people, because they know I'm not saying Canadians shouldn't exist, but that I'm saying the Canadiam state should cease to exist. Right-wingers (and their centrist lap dogs) call me Marxist, anarchist, anti-capitalist, anti-democratic (proudly guilty on all four charges) but not racist.

Right-wingers, however, are trying to pass laws that will make it illegal for American universities to not expel students who are anti-Zionist. In America there are no state-mandated repercussions to being against the existence of the American state...yet (mostly white and non-Jewish) Americans want to pass laws that ensure the punishment of those who criticize the Israeli state? Under the guise of being against racism? Fuck that noise.

Not sure how someone can possibly, in good faith, equate Iran with Israel. We don't condemn Israel because it's a religious state; we condemn Israel because its whole existence is an illegal occupation. There are lots of terrible countries out there: Saudi Arabia, North Korea, China...but the mere fact of their existence didn't displace an entire group of people. And the Russia/Crimea comparison is specious. Maybe Russia stole Crimea, but it sure as shit didn't steal Crimea, kick out the Crimeans, and then move in millions of people from Moscow.

Also Israel continues to exist in large part because western imperialists support it. Bolivia was run by white invaders. The indigenous population took power. America and Canada funded a coup, which was at first successful, then wasn't. America and Canada said, "Fuck it, we tried, tell Elon we can't get him any lithium." What would America do if the Palestinians took back their country from the white supremacists occupying it? They'd send millions over there to get it back. This is in large part because America, another county based on white supremacy, is able to use Israel as its only proxy in a region of incredible economic and geopolitical importance. So the existence of Israel, while being no more white suptemacist in theory, just has more significant implications than the existence of some Central American country that is run by lfair-as-fuck "Latin Americans" who have like 1% indigenous geneology.

Speaking of the unholy USA-Israel alliance founded on a mutual need for sustaining white supremacy, there's also something disgustingly brazen about the false claims Zionists make about the racial implications of supporting or opposing Israel. If you are against Israel, you're a racist, you're a Nazi, blah blah blah. It's the most sickening gaslighting when they try to argue that they, white people who are in the active process of perpetuating white supremacy, are victims of a white supremacist ideology when you point out that they're perpetuating white supremacy. It's the most twisted thing imaginable.

American white supremacists claim they're entitled to live on land stolen from people of colour because of their alleged supremacy as white people. But they don't steal land from people of colour, and then claim that they're actually people of colour.

Some jocky bro who beats up gay people because he's a big tough he-man who's gotta show them who's boss? Disgusting, obviously.

Some jocky bro who beats up gay people and then claims he's queer because he has a foot fetish? That's a whole different level of sociopathy.

--- · Post by **---** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:33 am

also a fun tangential fact: referring to israel as "isn'trael" when ur trolling on twitter is a good way to get a rise out of zionists. "fake news country" works decently too

Holymanm · Post by **Holymanm** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:51 am

flip wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:31 am
Unholymanm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:59 pm So could someone please explain why Israel is an evil ethnostate and these other countries aren't? Why does Israel have to be made secular; why can't it be a Jewish country when all of these other countries can be Christian or Muslim or Buddhist? No one seems to be calling for Iran to give up its statehood based on its being a theocracy (that is 100x more religiously repressive with its citizens than Israel)...? I'm 0% religious myself, but I don't really get it.
i'm not sure if this is directed at people here, or if it's directed at people you've seen outside this forum express a certain view of israel. but at least in my case, everything i said about israel applies equally to any other theocratic country, and i only spoke specifically of israel because that was the country people were talking about. mind you i didn't say any country should be dissolved, so you probably weren't talking to me anyway.

I should say I'm bringing it up in an outside-of-SCFZ context: over the past few years, I've noticed more and more people adopting anti-Zionism (whatever it means or doesn't mean) - and also noticed it getting more and more vitriolic, to the point where people now openly use "Zionist" as an ad hominem pejorative showing that the other person in the argument's opinion isn't remotely worth listening to. e.g., "Ignore what [X celebrity] says; they're a Zionist.

"

So (and I know I should stop reading online comments on anything, ever) I was curious to see what smarter and more worldly people here would say about it, to see what I'm missing. And I sort of slightly regret bringing it up, because that "worldliness" can often come from tragic, horrific, and bitter experience... so I do sincerely apologise to Kanafani and Arkadin if it ever seemed like I was unduly dismissing the seriousness of what Palestinians go through -- I hope you don't think I was!

It gets very personal very quickly, and I don't really know what to think about it. The Jewish side of my family was kicked out of Spain or Portugal or around there several centuries ago, and then lived in Hungary until they were sent by Hungarians to be murdered by Germans, with every single person in each of my grandparents' family dead when they got out of the camps -- and all of their land, businesses, money, and possessions taken meanwhile by (Christian) Hungarians. Then later on they were grateful to be taken in by Canada as refugees, and eventually I was born here -- in a land that was also taken from its own respective residents before this. So where the heck do I fit into the equation, and with whom should I sympathise more? The oppressors, the oppressed, Jewish people, anti-religious people (as I'm not religious), white people, "minorities"...? I hate my own people - Hungarians - for what they did to my family, and I feel bitter every time I go on a "torturing and killing my people history tour" (going to any single European city museum and inevitably coming across ". . . and then the King decided to kill all the Jewish people in the region in 1364 . . . and then the Jewish people were blamed for the Black Death and all were tortured to death in order to exorcise the demons inside them").

So I'm sure I can't possibly think about this situation impartially, and part of me automatically "roots for" Israel to exist and not countenance any more Jewish persecution, rah rah -- the other part of me is obviously horrified and disgusted by the thought of any state authority oppressing powerless people, and the Israeli government absolutely appears to be committing terrorist acts against people it should be protecting and providing for. But I still can't come close to the conclusion that Israel should be dissolved (by force) and its 9+ million citizens made refugees or citizens under a new-foreign-regime, or killed (just as happened to the Palestinians, yes), while no other country in the world should ever face similar measures. I can understand the argument that a state practicing something like apartheid is an unjust state that doesn't deserve to exist -- so would someone saying this also identify as an anti-Chinist, and believe Chinese people don't deserve to have their own country because of what they're doing to Muslims there? Or is the argument more that Israel was founded so recently that we still can and ought to change our mind and reverse its establishment and consign it to history already, and had this happened in 1648 it wouldn't cross our minds right now to be anti-Zionist? Or a combination of these two things?

I get (in theory) wanting to dissolve Israel, the USA, China, Canada, Turkey, Japan, Italy, Spain, and every other country in the world that was at one time at least partially conquered and taken from other people -- and I get wanting to put significant pressure and outrage and shame on Israel to stop what it's doing to Palestinians -- but wanting to dissolve Israel alone, I do not get. I understand all the arguments about how it's bad; I don't understand how it is the only country that is so bad it shouldn't exist. Again, the USA is a country that was founded on ethnic cleansing and stealing land; since its existence it's perpetrated terrorism, genocide, murder, and war around the world -- where are the anti-Americanists saying it shouldn't exist? (Of course there are a fringe few, but anti-Zionism is simply de rigueur now in a way in which the former obviously isn't.) Is it because it doesn't have something like apartheid (though @Arkadin your horrifying description of Palestinian conditions in Israel does sound eerily like what black people are saying living in the USA is like...

)? Is what it did to Iraq or Afghanistan less bad than that? I'm trying to get to the absolute X + Y = Z conclusion of anti-Zionism, and I might be too thick-headed or biased to get it. So I will just say that I wish we had a world in which we could talk about which country is the best and the nicest in the world, rather than which is the most genocidal or the most evil.....

MrCarmady · Post by **MrCarmady** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:45 am

But they don't steal land from people of colour, and then claim that they're actually people of colour.

Palestinians and Sephardi Jews aren't different from each other racially, and while Ashkenazi Jews are white-passing, and many of them are complicit in whites oppressing minorities (let's take Kissinger and Cambodia as an example, or Ben Shapiro and his anti-black racism), they're still always reminded by racists that they're not white. So I'm not sure you can frame it like that. It's more like two groups of 'people of colour' doing shitty things to each other (though unquestionably, one of the groups is far better at being horrible to the other). Just because Turks oppress and genocide Armenians, it doesn't suddenly make Turkish people white.

--- · Post by **---** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:55 pm

Right, I shouldn't have implied that Jews are some monolith...I know there are Ethiopian Jews and Jews all over the world for that matter. I guess I was referring to Ashkenazi Jews

But uh, yeah, gonna have to respectfully disagree with your belief that Ashkenazi Jews aren't white

Like kanafani and holymanm have mentioned, we all have our personal experiences that are informing our beliefs here, so the last thing I wanna do is try to say you're "wrong" about your own race... Obviously you've had a whole lifetime of experience that as a non-Jew I can't relate to, and surely have spent magnitudes more time learning about and discussing this issue. But yeah I just disagree I guess. Please take no disrespect in my saying this

MrCarmady · Post by **MrCarmady** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:14 pm

None taken, I don't think it's clear-cut either way, though it seems reductive to group us with white people who themselves aren't much of a monolith. Try telling someone from Eastern Europe, living on minimum wage in the UK and facing widespread racism that they're benefiting from white privilege and they'll think you're crazy. In a class sense, Ashkenazi Jews have certainly carved out an echelon alongside WASPs for themselves which makes it easier to lump them into the same category, but saying that prejudice against Ashkenazi Jews is distinct from racism is questionable imo.

Website · Post by **rischka** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:19 pm

Yeah I think the definition of white expands as needed here but never includes jews and isn't likely to (no matter what Stephen Miller does)

Holymanm · Post by **Holymanm** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:04 pm

MrCarmady wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:14 pmTry telling someone from Eastern Europe, living on minimum wage in the UK and facing widespread racism that they're benefiting from white privilege and they'll think you're crazy

https://scfzforum.org/phpBB3/viewtopic. ... 191#p19191 ...what this immediately made me think of

Website · Post by **rischka** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:06 pm

wba has talked about white on white racism in germany toward people from eastern europe too. first time i heard of it but not shocked. everybody needs somebody

it would happen here too if they could get rid of everyone darker. there has to be an in group and an out group. climate change will exacerbate this

Website · Post by **rischka** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:58 pm

so hilariously, trump is now threatening the GA governor ahead of his rally there tonight. this should be good

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 22048?s=20

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 84614?s=20

maybe he'll tell everyone to boycott the runoff

i would not put it past him

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status ... 66720?s=20

St. Gloede · Post by **St. Gloede** » Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:30 am

rischka wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:06 pm wba has talked about white on white racism in germany toward people from eastern europe too. first time i heard of it but not shocked. everybody needs somebody

it would happen here too if they could get rid of everyone darker. there has to be an in group and an out group. climate change will exacerbate this

Like you mentioned above "white", and then you also have "the right kind of white", "pure white", etc. is a thing that has no real fixed meaning. Even in the US white hispanics are frequently not considered white - and you don't have to go many decades back in time to see the Italians being seen as non-white (which comparatively makes "sense" as Italians and white hispanics are broadly of Mediterranean origins).

This is also quite interesting, as in the "ethnic hierarchy" in Europe Mediterranean are not reported to get anywhere near the racist abuse as Polish people, Romanian people, Romani people, and others from the ex-Eastern bloc. I work with plenty of Serbians and they can tell a lot of stories - including direct/clear systemic racism.

I live in Malta at present, and there is a notable Serbian community here - and Malta specifically made pushes to take their children away: https://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/nati ... 8wg5WX0nIU

Of course, there is a discussion to be had on whether it is "racism" or targeting poor ethnicities/groups (if you want to draw a distinction) simply because they are poor/generally poor.

My wife is (presumably) part Polish (we don't actually know) but she has a Polish/Eastern European last name and she is Maltese (so she has darker skin) and when she lived in England she got constant abuse on the presumption that she was Polish - including neighbours telling her she could not park her car on their street "because she was Polish".

Yet, interestingly, in America, it seems Polish/Eastern European descendants are not facing any racial/ethnic abuse (at least not on the same scale), most Mediterranean neither, but those of Iberian descent do. It is interesting (though sad) to see how relative it is.

-

For a more bizarre, but real example - though this was before my time - we were thought in school (back in Norway) that up until the 60s(or was it the 70s) there was extreme xenophobia towards Northerners, to the point that it was common to find adverts saying "No pets, no Northerners", this on the basis that Northern Norwegians were lesser than Southern Norwegians, with a long list of stereotypes, such as being alcoholic, etc.

The explanation given for why this ended was actually quite in line with your suggestion Rishika. There was an increase in (Pakistani) immigration, and sad Pakistani immigrants became the main focus of xenophobia/racism until it shifted on to different targets.

Website · Post by **rischka** » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:23 am

those of Iberian descent

-- i believe this can be traced to the moorish occupation! also the conquistadors didn't bring women to the americas. there's a startling amount of racism in latin america as well. sins of the fathers and all that. indigenous peoples at the bottom everywhere. yet science tells us race is a social construct

reading about the rwandan genocide is really mind boggling. apparently german colonials elevated the tutsi believing them to be a superior 'race'

Website · Post by **rischka** » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:48 am

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1335 ... 36160?s=20

trump threatening white genocide in georgia

Post by **flip** » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:59 pm

i wonder if giuliani made all those witnesses sick too, sitting maskless together at all those hearings last week, they might be regretting signing up for all of this right now

Website · Post by **rischka** » Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:09 pm

he's in hospital which is probably the only reason we found out about this. after hosting numerous superspreader events

Holymanm · Post by **Holymanm** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:00 am

people are saying the democrats must be secretly injecting/infecting all these republican figures with the virus, because it's too suspicious that only one side seems to be getting it

i think i said earlier i need to stop looking at the internet... my brain is going to turn to giuli

Website · Post by **rischka** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:31 am

they've had to shut down our entire legislature for a week https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2020/12 ... gislature/

Giuliani visited Arizona this past week as one stop on his traveling legal tour alleging there was widespread fraud in the election. Giuliani and fellow Trump attorney Jenna Ellis talked — unmasked — for roughly 11 hours in the hotel ballroom with several lawmakers.

morons

Pretentious Hipster · Post by **Pretentious Hipster** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:11 am

https://twitter.com/bayareas415/status/ ... 83744?s=19

der kulterer · Post by **der kulterer** » Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:10 am

brothers and sisters, behold a fine politically engaged art!

not painted by Donnie Trumpko (derived from Donnie Darko but referring to Mark Rothko) himself (he is not that far as Bush Jr.) but by Jon McNaughton...
https://jonmcnaughton.com/

you can follow Jon on twitter...
https://twitter.com/McNaughtonArt

a failed coup melancholia masterpiece...

plus a written elaboration (figures depicted named)...

a counterpoint to the following...

ofc some evil minds try to subvert the message...

but we all know whom to blame...
1/ the gambling Democrat dogs — the cheats!

2/ and fake news!

however, Don's free spirit has a powerful engine ("Tax Evasion Easy Ride")...

available also as a mug!...

Don is the destitute ammosexuals' light carrier...
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... ammosexual

"Narrenshiff" or "Ship of Fools" is one of the classical themes in the history of art...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Fools_(satire)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Fools_(painting)

der kulterer · Post by **der kulterer** » Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:42 am

Everything is Political Fútbol
https://youtu.be/qgvrpxY1o3s

i think Jon can be counted among American Stuckists (the main representative of "Stuck in the White House Stuckism")...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuckism_ ... ted_States
"Socialist Realism" of the Stalinist Era has become reborn as the "Stuckist Neofeudal New Objectivity" or "Stuckist Neofeudal Neorealism"!

Holymanm · Post by **Holymanm** » Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:05 am

Website · Post by **rischka** » Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:58 pm

yeah i've seen that 'artist' before. note how he refers to 'the other side' as if we're the enemy (we are)

trump has played his trump card

he's convinced the texas AG (who is under investigation currently) to sue the states of pennsylvania, georgia, michigan and wisconsin. https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/e ... ostpopular

The nature of the action Texas hopes the Supreme Court will hear contains a laundry list of grievances that concludes Joe Biden had a “less than one in a quadrillion” chance of overcoming Trump’s lead as of Nov. 4—which was before the mail-in ballot count poured in.

when a state sues another state, the case goes direct to SCOTUS. experts seem skeptical of their chances. we're up to 51 lawsuits the trump camp has lost or had tossed

https://twitter.com/MBKugler/status/133 ... 25989?s=20

SCFZ

SCFZ

Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political

Re: Everything is Political