SCFZ

wba wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:24 pm I have only seen 2 of his films so far

Unholymanm wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:39 am

wba wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:24 pm Hawaii is also another example (following Period of Adjustment which I watched the other day) of the woke young person crowd shitting on movies for being sexist and colonialist and racist, and overall unacceptable for decent society, when they're "actually" criticising these things. Now, I don't think "but they don't realise that it's actually a satire" is automatically an excuse on its own, if a flick is just crass and distasteful to a fault...

Yeah, nowadays people who aren't interested in art and artistry automatically dismiss a lot of artists.
- if the director is (obviously/allegedly) an asshole ("I don't care what he has to say, I'll never watch a movie by Allen/Polanski/Toback/produced by Weinstein/etc.etc.etc.
- if the film doesn't outright and explicitly condemn something, which is usually equated with a protagonist expressing something obvious, which is laughable, cause a character expressing something is always the character expressing something, and it's almost impossible to draw any conclusions from that, other than about that specific character. But that comes from bad books and bad screenplays and such where "the protagonist expresses the directors/artists inner thoughts" or any such bullshit. People really tend to identify with characters on screen...
- if a film merely shows something which they condemn or don't like seeing or even don't like thinking about - when that was one of the things film theorists initially praised about photography and the eye of the camera in the 19th century and first half of the 20th century (think of Bazin), that it can show you things and make you reflect on them just by showing them. Nowadays a documentary might be allowed to do that, but to create a fictional setting for the exact same purpose is seen more and more critically

The satire sentence from me which you quote was meant for people who love or endorse what is depicted in a film, when it is actually not only being criticized but openly satirized. Like showing a clip of Trump doing something stupid, but his fans not getting the satire, cause they think what he said in the clip is great. That's what Kubrick does in Full Metal Jacket imo, just "showing" and depicting the most shameful, awful, dehumanizing aspects of military training and combat (while showing nothing good AT ALL), but people automatically start categorizing and thinking like "this was ok", "this not so much", "this maybe", and just don't get that every single second shown in the film is disgusting, cause it's presented in a "realistic" manner (as life actually IS this horrible). Earlier, with a satire like "Dr. Strangelove" everyone instantly recognized that everything was totally over the top, so this was nowhere as effective in criticizing the military, cause most of the things shown were things almost everyone could disagree with and condemn.

wba wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:24 pmmy vote goes to:

01. Slap Shot (1977)

thoxans wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:43 am

wba wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:24 pmmy vote goes to:

01. Slap Shot (1977)

thx, wba! you've inspired me to give slap shot a go

thoxans wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:20 pm *seen three

ralch wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:54 pm Seen 5

wba wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:56 pm PS: You wouldn't believe how many films I have watched, which were devastating and which made me angry and made me cry because of their harsh criticism of things, but other people I spoke with found them offensive, cause they thought those films were endorsing bad stuff or were just cynical about them (because they weren't "showing a way out" or "offering a solution"). My opinion is that most people just aren't that versed in "reading" art or analyzing/deciphering it, or are too lazy to do that and invest that much energy into art, and are thus in the end actually too stupid and ignorant to "get" what the artwork is doing. Those are the people who always want things "explained" to them. But art isn't about explaining things but about analyzing them, truly getting to the core of things, to ACTUALLY understand them. To look the beast in the eye, so to speak, to look into the abyss and see it staring back at you. And to always realize that YOU are part of the problem - and not part of the solution, like people like and tend to think about themselves ("I am the good one, it's always the others who are bad"). Instead, art often shows you that you are part of the problem, and totally on the wrong "side" of life - but people usually don't understand that, and don't like to see that or admit that to themselves.

flip wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:36 pm
thoxans, you can choose our next director if you like, but i know you had the chance a week ago and declined, so unless you've changed your mind, it will be ralch's turn

john ryan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:46 pm Seen 5

Unholymanm wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:31 am

wba wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:56 pm PS: You wouldn't believe how many films I have watched, which were devastating and which made me angry and made me cry because of their harsh criticism of things, but other people I spoke with found them offensive, cause they thought those films were endorsing bad stuff or were just cynical about them (because they weren't "showing a way out" or "offering a solution"). My opinion is that most people just aren't that versed in "reading" art or analyzing/deciphering it, or are too lazy to do that and invest that much energy into art, and are thus in the end actually too stupid and ignorant to "get" what the artwork is doing. Those are the people who always want things "explained" to them. But art isn't about explaining things but about analyzing them, truly getting to the core of things, to ACTUALLY understand them. To look the beast in the eye, so to speak, to look into the abyss and see it staring back at you. And to always realize that YOU are part of the problem - and not part of the solution, like people like and tend to think about themselves ("I am the good one, it's always the others who are bad"). Instead, art often shows you that you are part of the problem, and totally on the wrong "side" of life - but people usually don't understand that, and don't like to see that or admit that to themselves.

Like people complaining about how Starship Troopers glorifies war and violence and jingoism... or AHX, Neo-Nazism; Fight Club, overrated American cult classics; etc

flip wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:15 amassuming

Unholymanm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:50 am the little drummer girl

i am again left hopelessly lost! i watch this and i see an absolute masterclass in movie-making, with every single cast member note-perfect, every scene taut and lean, every location immediate and exact, every subtle little transition or pan so very deft. magnificent! the work of one of the great masters.

.....then i check the reviews, and everyone hates it; almost universal 1/5s; terrible movie; horrible adaptation of a book; bad casting and bad directing. is this the "hill" i want to die on? sweet lebanese jesus, this movie was great; and apparently i do not understand movies at all
4.5/5

thoxans wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:39 pmdef blocked a few people on boxd