SCFZ

errata: i overlooked the yt video of "Clouds of Glass" (Skleněná oblaka) is only the snippet (it has 18 min in full).
if there is anyone desperately wanting to watch it (after seeing the yt fragment) with no access to KG, i am willing to upload it on wetransfer and post a link here (making a wetransfer week-loong freeleech).

Interesting that this board shows a preference for Valley over Marketa. This is not typical. The consensus seems to be that Marketa is a much better film and that Valley is a more simplified, less interesting version of it. The last time I watched Valley I thought it wasn't far off from Marketa in terms of quality.

The quality of Vlacil's output really dropped off after the mid 70's judging from what I've seen, but most of the Czech directors of his generation were in the same boat. After the 60's, the cultural environment changed radically and this surely impacted their work.

The partnership between director František Vláčil and screenwriter Vladimír Körner yielded films including Adelheid (Adelheid, 1969), Pověst o stříbrné jedli (The Legend of the Silver Fir, 1973) and Stín kapradiny (The Shadow of a Ferns, 1984). But it is the historical drama Údolí včel (The Valley of the Bees, 1967) that is widely regarded as the pair’s greatest collaborative achievement. Released in cinemas shortly after Vláčil’s highly acclaimed Marketa Lazarová (Marketa Lazarová, 1967), The Valley of the Bees came about as a result of efforts to reuse the props and costumes from the director’s previous opus – hitherto the most expensive Czechoslovak film of all time.

... a similar story from a decade later...

The film ("The Ninth Heart", 1978, by Juraj Herz) was budgeted together with the picture "The Virgin and the Monster" (1978, by Juraj Herz as well), and the two films also shared sets. In the studio No. 6 in the Barrandov Studios, architect Labský created a multi-functional set that was further adapted and used for the filming of "The Virgin and the Monster", "The Ninth Heart", "Mystery of the Iron City" (or "The Secret of the Steel Town", 1978) and "Cat Prince" (1978).

... seems like the Czechoslovak socialist film industry was (as a by-product of lacking funds) quite eco-minded, indulged in recycling and thus it could serve as a role-model to the film industry in the era of global warming. i guess, the film producers like HBO or Netflix (if they aspire to be perceived as responsible companies) should follow in the footsteps of "Markéta Lazarová" and "Valley of the Bees" and use the same settings and costumes for several series.

Joks Trois wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:28 am Interesting that this board shows a preference for Valley over Marketa. This is not typical. The consensus seems to be that Marketa is a much better film and that Valley is a more simplified, less interesting version of it. The last time I watched Valley I thought it wasn't far off from Marketa in terms of quality.

The quality of Vlacil's output really dropped off after the mid 70's judging from what I've seen, but most of the Czech directors of his generation were in the same boat. After the 60's, the cultural environment changed radically and this surely impacted their work.

I love "Marketa", but for me "Valley" is something else. The otherworldly atmosphere of "Valley" just works for me in a splendid way.


PS: I have:

Cassavetes: 0
Marker: 9

Cassavetes: 2
Marker: 20

Cassavetes: 10
Marker: 13

11 Cassavetes
19 Marker

Oops double Post

Surprised we haven't already done JC.

Bring it on! I rewatched Husbands last weekend.

Marketa Lazarová
Adelheid
The Devil’s Trap
Sirius
The Valley of the Bees
Serpent’s Poison
Shadows of a Hot Summer
Concert at the End of Summer
The Little Shepherd Boy from the Valley

Seen 18

Can I get more time on this one

wba wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:12 am

Joks Trois wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:28 am Interesting that this board shows a preference for Valley over Marketa. This is not typical. The consensus seems to be that Marketa is a much better film and that Valley is a more simplified, less interesting version of it. The last time I watched Valley I thought it wasn't far off from Marketa in terms of quality.

The quality of Vlacil's output really dropped off after the mid 70's judging from what I've seen, but most of the Czech directors of his generation were in the same boat. After the 60's, the cultural environment changed radically and this surely impacted their work.

I love "Marketa", but for me "Valley" is something else. The otherworldly atmosphere of "Valley" just works for me in a splendid way.

Yeah it wasn't a complaint, more of an observation. I'm glad that it's that highly appreciated here. I'm waiting for a blu-ray release because it's visually stunning.

Zero Cassavetes though? heh

Holymanm wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:14 am Seen 18

cool! (is there any title left you still wish to see? or do you feel already saturated?)

bure wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:23 am Can I get more time on this one

yeah np, won't be doing anything with polls until tuesday at least, can wait longer if anyone wants more time

cassavetes works for our next poll

jiri wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:30 pm

Holymanm wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:14 am Seen 18

cool! (is there any title left you still wish to see? or do you feel already saturated?)

just all the ones i haven't yet seen the legend of the silver fir is available on youtube, but doesn't seem to have subtitles anywhere. lots of his (especially short) movies don't really need subtitles, but this one seems pretty talkative. and then same with garrison in the peak, on both counts.

dopis z fronty doesn't seem to be available anywhere at all - and then there are arguably some random little other movies he's done that aren't available either. but the majority of his stuff, including almost every "real movie", is available, so can't complain!

overall, he's certainly one of my favourite directors. even if only marketa is in that sort of top tier for me, he has a whole lot of other good movies...

Holymanm wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:59 pm dopis z fronty doesn't seem to be available anywhere at all

it could be downloaded here...
https://uloz.to/file/KH1X4OyvVDA5/vhu-p ... 956-cz-mp4
it is without subs tho.

you are supposed to click a button with a turtle saying "stáhnout pomalu zdarma" (download slow for free), then you will be asked to transcribe the code (to verify your human nature) and then the download will start but alongside will run on the screen a small add which will demonstrate superiority of downloading fast for cash over slow for free (zavřít reklamní sdělení = close the add).

"Letter from Front" = voiceover retelling the fictitious "letter" of a member of the supportive army units who writes home about his tough job (this time the unit is clearing the landscape of trees on the spot which is supposed to be flooded, cuz there will be a new dam).

https://uloz.to/file/5gPqE8XuSep7/hleda ... -irisa-avi

Searching (Hledání, 1979) by Drahomíra Vihanová
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387288/?ref_=nm_flmg_dr_8
short doc, making of "Concert at the End of Summer", no subs

@holymanm how did you see The Town in White??

jiri wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:13 am

"The Valley of the Bees" came about as a result of efforts to reuse the props and costumes from the director’s previous opus – hitherto the most expensive Czechoslovak film of all time ("Markéta Lazarová").

... a similar story from a decade later...

In the studio No. 6 in the Barrandov Studios, architect Labský created a multi-functional set that was further adapted and used for the filming of "The Virgin and the Monster", "The Ninth Heart", "Mystery of the Iron City" (or "The Secret of the Steel Town", 1978) and "Cat Prince" (1978).

... seems like the Czechoslovak socialist film industry was (as a by-product of lacking funds) quite eco-minded, indulged in recycling and thus it could serve as a role-model.

... i forgot to mention one more example! Settings from sci-fi "Ikarie XB1" (1963) re-used by Jindřich Polák for his children flick "Klaun Ferdinand and the Rocket" (1963) (current freeleech on kg). i know it has nothing to do with FV, but as i liked RIP thread being enhanced with POLITICS (tears from reading necrologues mixed with tears triggered by political dissing), i thought enhancing this thread with ECOLOGY can't hurt either (at least, it is no more odd than repeatedly mentioning Cassavets or Marker above).

gangster, thanks. that one's making my life for sure

After watching The Serpent's Poison, I don't believe that Vlacil was that great at 'realism', which was a tendency of his work after Adelheid. I have a feeling that I will feel the same way about that Shepherd's film. He excelled when he was trading in 'poetics', so to speak, and moral ambiguity. Shades of Fern lies somewhere in the middle of his early and mid to late period style, so I found it preferable to the likes of Serpents, although it obviously has its problems. The same applies to Mag.

valley of the bees made a push for the top spot, but the winner was what i think most people would have guessed. cool to see so much voting in this poll, a lot more than i expected when i started it up:

results
1. Marketa Lazarova (1967) — 38 pts
2. Valley of the Bees (1968) — 28 pts
3. The Devil’s Trap (1962) — 17 pts
4. Adelheid (1970) — 16 pts
5. The White Dove (1960) — 8.8 pts
6. Sirius (1975) — 4.5 pts
7. Clouds of Glass (1957) — 4 pts
8. The Town in White (1972) — 3 pts
9. Shadows of a Hot Summer (1978) — 2.6 pts
10. Mag (1988) — 2 pts
11. Serpent’s Poison (1981) — 0.8 pts
12. Chase (No Entrance) (1960) — 0.5 pts
13. Concert at the End of Summer (1980) — 0.1 pts

Joks Trois wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:04 am After watching The Serpent's Poison, I don't believe that Vlacil was that great at 'realism', which was a tendency of his work after Adelheid. I have a feeling that I will feel the same way about that Shepherd's film. He excelled when he was trading in 'poetics', so to speak, and moral ambiguity.

yes! in my view, "Shepherd's" is worse than "Serpent's". but the question is, if moving towards realism was his own choice, or he was pushed this way by the regime. after Stalin's death "socialist realism" was not pushed so strongly, but still, objective "realism" was preferred over subjectively "poetical" or "ambiguous". the other reason, why his work was on slippery slope is this...

When Vláčil started to make his own projects in the 1960s, he started heavily drinking. He believed that alcohol helped him in his work, helping him to reach his visions. His problems with alcohol worsened after he made Markéta Lazarová. After he finished the film, he looked "like a living skeleton". When he finished Adelheid, he collapsed. He underwent therapy and made Smoke on the Potato Field during a period of sobriety. Owing to the omission of his favourite scene from the film, because it was destroyed, Vláčil starts drinking again. His alcoholism was not helping his work anymore. He tried to fight his alcoholism by making Snake's Venom. Vláčil's alcoholism led him to lose his family and friends.

and "heavily drinking" issue might have something to do with regime's (mild, or less mild) ongoing push into "realism" (liqueur as an antidote to "socialist realism" requirements).

When Vláčil started to make his own projects in the 1960s, he started heavily drinking. He believed that alcohol helped him in his work, helping him to reach his visions. His problems with alcohol worsened after he made Markéta Lazarová. After he finished the film, he looked "like a living skeleton". When he finished Adelheid, he collapsed. He underwent therapy and made Smoke on the Potato Field during a period of sobriety. Owing to the omission of his favourite scene from the film, because it was destroyed, Vláčil starts drinking again. His alcoholism was not helping his work anymore. He tried to fight his alcoholism by making Snake's Venom. Vláčil's alcoholism led him to lose his family and friends.

lends a creepy feeling after the fact to albert... and:

wikipedia wrote:Vláčil's health was poor at the time of shooting which led to many difficulties.

Unholymanm wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:57 pm lends a creepy feeling after the fact to albert

autobiography in a garb of adaptation. (i have yet to watch it.)

he was occasionally taking completely minor roles in the films by others. and in "The Snowdrop Festival"...
https://letterboxd.com/film/the-snowdrop-festival/
there is a scene from the pub and there is an old man who has zero lines to say, who just drinks one shot after the other and it is being played (with a great deal of authenticity) by František Vláčil.

I'm pretty sure I read that Vlacil's drinking problem started in the 60's, around the time he made Marketa.

Regarding his shift towards realism, who knows. Perhaps one could argue that he no longer felt the need or desire to cloak his films in abstraction after the late 60's.

Do you like Mag Jiri? I thought it was an unconventional 'biopic', and stylistically it's kind of a blend of old and new styles, but it seems like the kind of film that wouldn't resonate with anyone who wasn't a Czech with some knowledge on the subject.

Joks Trois wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:16 pm I'm pretty sure I read that Vlacil's drinking problem started in the 60's, around the time he made Marketa.

When Vláčil started to make his own projects in the 1960s, he started heavily drinking.

there is no disagreement. i just expect FV was driven to poetics-n-ambiguity on his own, but all-around official preference was (socialist) realism. he might have been torn apart this way right from the start (while starting to shoot films within the unit of Czechoslovak army). he was supposed to make a film about brave pilots of Czechoslovak army and he made "Clouds of Glass", he was supposed to make agitprop about tough job of the border patrol and made "Chase" stuffed with atmospheric depictions of winter landscape or with a micro-study of a person on the verge of exhaustion. and at one point he just started to use as an aid to withstand the pressure liquor. and initially, it worked. being inebriated he was capable to escape the realism-push and do what he wanted. but ultimately his alcoholism became the stumbling block.

another story is he became a member of the Communist party after WW2 but after the Warshaw Pact invasion (1968) he resigned on his party membership with disgust and was banned (allowed to only make short docs). the ban followed Adelheid (1969). so another reason for his work being on the slippery slope after Adelheid and why his drinking got totally out of control.

in any case, i strongly believe he was into poetics-n-ambiguity by his nature and if there would be no pressure from outside, he would not make predominantly realist flicks. but it is just my pov.

Joks Trois wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:16 pm Do you like Mag Jiri?

i didn't watch it yet. but i read, when Mag was not received very well, he gave up any attempts to make another film. Mag is from 1987-1988, he died 1999 (aged 74), so it was like 11 yrs he could still make films, but he felt like Muses abandoned him.

otherwise, Mag is a biography of a romantic poet Karel Hynek Mácha.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_Hynek_M%C3%A1cha
at least a portion of his poem "May" is supposed to learned by heart by any local kid in elementary school.
https://www.lupomesky.cz/maj/may.html
Máj / May (E.F. Burian, Čeněk Zahradníček) from 1936 poll is a film related to the subject.
or this film https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0217595/
or this https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0997080/?r ... flmg_cin_5
(i didn't watch both of those tho).
in any case, "May" or Karel Hynek Mácha are notoriously famous here, thus i can expect that in the film are things which rely on the audience being familiar with certain stuff and thus for a foreigner it might seem too enigmatic. but i will be able to tell for (more) sure after i will watch it myself.

posted this to letterbox:

https://letterboxd.com/fliptrotsky/list ... -poll-239/

i just discovered these two articles which i expect (i didn't read them, but would like to - if anyone has some academic pass and can get them & share in Resources i would be very thankful - jstore link below - i have no clue if those are different articles or just the same text with two different titles) can tell a lot about the early works of František Vláčil...

Archives, History, and Innovation in Czechoslovak Army Films
Alice Lovejoy
The Moving Image: The Journal of the Association of Moving Image Archivists
Vol. 11, No. 2 (Fall 2011), pp. 1-21 (22 pages)
Published By: University of Minnesota Press
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5749/mo ... 0001?seq=1

A military avant garde: Experimentation in the Czechoslovak Army Film studio
Alice Lovejoy
December 2011Screen 52(4):427-441
This essay examines a series of experimental documentaries produced by the Czechoslovak Army Film studio in the late 1960s, films that were in many cases more radical, aesthetically and politically, than those of the contemporaneous Czechoslovak New Wave. The essay argues that institutional and political factors within the Army studio and the Czechoslovak state, as well as the broader social dynamics of the ‘exceptional”‘ year of 1968, were central not only to the emergence of this ‘military avant-garde’, but also to the form that it took. These films thus ask us to reconsider the question of the relationship between cinema and the state within, and beyond, postwar East-Central Europe, and to explore the ‘productivity’ of marginal spaces of cultural production.
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ilm_studio

the annotation to the second article speaks about "experimental documentaries produced by the Czechoslovak Army Film studio in the late 1960s", but František Vláčil was making his "army films" in 1950s. in any case, i expect FV is extensively mentioned there whatever the focus of the article is.