SCFZ

Yes it's compulsory, but if you don't vote and get a fine, all you need to do to avoid paying it is write back and give them an excuse like "I was sick."

Also, as long as you attend and get your name crossed off in the big book of voters' names at a polling station, you can just walk out again without voting, or you can vote "informally" by ruining your ballots (by scribbling on them or not filling them out properly), or else you can fold your ballots and pop them in the voting boxes completely empty/unmarked. So technically, you can still refuse to vote, but you've still got to attend. The conservative parties here have for years pushed to make voting voluntary. That's because they know voluntary voting favours conservative parties.

I still mean everything I said in my last post.

I'll take that as a personal attack, Pabs. If there's no room for shades of gray in your world view, or any possibility that factors you don't consider might contribute to peoples' decisions, please refrain from communicating with me in the future.

Unless it's to answer me this question: Granting that Donald Trump is a despicable worm with no human virtues, the very personification of the "Ugly American" stereotype, that he's done nothing good while in office, and that he's not equipped ever to be anything but a national embarrassment... what actions of his can you point to that are so bad they'll compare with Hillary Clinton's direct personal responsibility for allowing a military junta to take control of Honduras, or (being careful not to overstate Her personal responsibility) the highly significant role She played in the destruction of the nation of Libya?

Short answer: utterly destroying the rule of law, which paves the way for horrors on a far more monstrous scale. If you ask people like Noam Chomsky or Mehdi Hasan, both of whom are well informed and concerned about neoliberal incursions like Honduras and Libya, I guarantee you they'll say it's vitally important to vote Trump out, whether it's Clinton, Biden, or whoever. The danger is that great. I used to think that as bad as Trump is, at least he hasn't done the actual damage yet that GWB did. But it's a different type of damage, and after watching his presidency deteriorate I no longer think that's a helpful way to look at it. Trump isn't just some buffoon to laugh at; he's been tied to high-level organized crime his whole life, which is synonymous with his Russia ties. It's a bad situation not only for the U.S. but for the whole world.

ok let's agree to disagree we're all on the same side -- against fascism! (I hope) verrrry sorrrry I started this fire

lencho i apologize from the bottom of my heart, plz don't leave us no one will ever forgive me

...harrumph...

... no harm, Risch, as long as pabs has fucked right off....

Umbugbene wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:20 pm Short answer: utterly destroying the rule of law, which paves the way for horrors on a far more monstrous scale. It's a bad situation not only for the U.S. but for the whole world.

Umbugbene: thanks, that's exactly why I wrote what I did.

I'm sorry I offended you Lencho.

Everyone that would never in a million years vote Democrat should just hold their nose, just this once, and vote Democrat, to get rid of Trump. Only once he's ejected (and hopefully also tried by a court of law for all his crimes) can you hope to save your country and its constitution. If Trump wins again, you can wave both of them goodbye, as there might no longer be an easy (or even safe!) path back to a properly functioning, decent society, as he will have completely destroyed them in his second term.

His buffoonery and immaturity are the least of your problems. His utter meanness, crookedness, dishonesty and depravity are. He is utter filth. A completely uneducated, illiterate, underworld gangster should not be, and should never have been, President of the United States of America.

And Hillary is not a candidate this time!

Peace be with you all.

That's all I'm going to say now.

1)
"I'm sorry I offended you but I'M RIGHT I'M RIGHT I'M RIGHT."

2)
"Trump won the last election because..."
"So compare Trump to HRC (to persuade me that HRC votes last time were an imperative,...)"
"Hillary isn't running this time."

3)
"Utterly destroying the rule of law" isn't an action, it's an interpretation of his actions in aggregate. Rhetoric. MAAAAYBE if you gave concrete examples you could convince me, but I doubt it. In any case, I asked the question specifically of pabs, in a message that was clearly directed to him as an individual, in hopes that he'd engage with it and think through his own answer. That won't happen now. Thanks all the same, umbugbene, for your input.

To get the thread back on topic...Michael Lonsdale is dead, 89.

oh no! i can't articulate why i always liked him so much, but i'd watch anything and everything that he was in. no question my favorite actor connected with the french new wave, and also in all those marcel hanoun movies!

I probably fell in love with Lonsdale watching Ruiz' Insomniac on the Bridge. That film is so inarticulately hilarious.

i fell in love with lonsdale watching moonraker as a kid! but love him the most for out 1, and for gebo and the shadow...

Lencho of the Apes wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:10 pm "Utterly destroying the rule of law" isn't an action, it's an interpretation of his actions in aggregate. Rhetoric. MAAAAYBE if you gave concrete examples you could convince me

some of trump's actions pose an existential threat. withdrawing from the paris agreement and related environmental policies, divulging state secrets to russia, undermining nato. his actions, not only his rhetoric, undermine democracy and rule of law - using the military to kidnap protestors at gunpoint, enlisting foreign governments to interfere in american elections, undermining the postal service to prevent mail-in voting. vulnerable communities are especially affected by trump administration actions - family separations, stacking the supreme court to threaten roe v wade, depriving trans people of equal access to health care, and on and on.

i'm generally very sympathetic to the argument that democrats in america are imperialists who screw up countries around the world, and in many respects aren't much better than republicans. but i think trump is a special case, and it's not just because of some disgusting tweets or access hollywood footage.

i don't want to have an argument or try to persuade anyone of anything, but i kind of felt i needed to post something if you were asking for examples that illustrate how trump's actions are worse than those a democrat might take.

I was just reminded he played that slimy, sexually dubious priest in Louis Malle's 1971 Le souffle au coeur. That confession scene with the young student, where Lonsdale's character feels one of the young boy's thighs with both his hands and remarks "My! How your thighs have grown!" is truly unpleasant.

no!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-a83bN6LAg

The cognitive dissonance of modern leftist progressivism, especially when marinated thoroughly in manipulated journalistic propaganda and embroidered in grave-clothes cultural marxism, is astounding. That a singular mind could doubly execute the mental gymnastics of deriding decades old trump marital affairs while praising a piece of lauded trash such as "WAP" openly is a hilariously profound exercise in moral hypocrisy. The Left are pure hypocrites. Cut and dried. Having the gall to libel trump's geopolitics while offering unflinching support of obama's endless civilian dronestrikes and clinton's intoxication with sinister globalism and open child exploitation. Supporting bernie's plan for redistribution while he sits on millions and three houses garnered through the capitalist system to which he feigns contempt. Pretending to care about the constitution while daily advocating for its disintegration. Deeming words violence, and silence violence, but violence itself not to be violence. Claiming to be anti-fascist while forcefully shutting down every facet of free speech, censoring every wellspring of truth, altering history, and banning any dissenters. Burning down the American cities and black neighborhoods they pretend to enshrine. Give me a break. Hypocrites.

liquidnature wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:37 pm The cognitive dissonance of modern leftist progressivism, especially when marinated thoroughly in manipulated journalistic propaganda and embroidered in grave-clothes cultural marxism, is astounding. That a singular mind could doubly execute the mental gymnastics of deriding decades old trump marital affairs while praising a piece of lauded trash such as "WAP" openly is a hilariously profound exercise in moral hypocrisy. The Left are pure hypocrites. Cut and dried. Having the gall to libel trump's geopolitics while offering unflinching support of obama's endless civilian dronestrikes and clinton's intoxication with sinister globalism and open child exploitation. Supporting bernie's plan for redistribution while he sits on millions and three houses garnered through the capitalist system to which he feigns contempt. Pretending to care about the constitution while daily advocating for its disintegration. Deeming words violence, and silence violence, but violence itself not to be violence. Claiming to be anti-fascist while forcefully shutting down every facet of free speech, censoring every wellspring of truth, altering history, and banning any dissenters. Burning down the American cities and black neighborhoods they pretend to enshrine. Give me a break. Hypocrites.

Congrats, this is the stupidest thing anyone's posted here since we banned Damian

everyone stop it

hey guys, i'm not sure if you heard but michael lonsdale died

i wasn't sure who he was but i just saw his photo RIP detective lebel



(i haven't seen out 1 cuz i'm a philistine )

Thanks for your input, Flip.I don't take exception to anything you said.

flip wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:55 pm if you were asking for examples

(In response to the claim that (paraphrase) "Anyone who didn't vote for HRC in 2016 contributed to the creation of a hellnation between Canada and Mexico") I was asking for specific things Trump had done that were as bad as those two shining examples of HRC's policy decisions. Bearing in mind that those are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to HRC's destructive governance in the past, I don't know of any other way to measure what HAS been under Trump to what WOULD HAVE been under Clinton, especially since the latter is only a hypothetical. Weighing the aggregate of his actions against the aggregate of Hers is meaningless, if She's never been President for four years.

Nothing yet has convinced me that Trump is in fact a "special case;" I still see only a typical Republican + boundless ignorance + boundless narcissism + a larger than usual share of corrupt practice.

FWIW, I was fully prepared to vote blindly for any D that ended up getting the nomination, as long as the primary process had been conducted fairly and legitimately. D-Corps couldn't even cross that very low hurdle. I've been ratfucked into a corner by a D-party machinery that feels no obligation to represent its constituents and feels no respect for the democratic process; they make a mockery of two things that should be of the very highest priority, cornerstones of their (ostensible) ideology, and I'm expected to reward them for it? I can't do that. If they lose their election because of people like me, that's solidly on them.

And I think they can smell that in the wind; why else would they be courting R voters in a way I've never seen before, if it's not that they';e aware of how many D-adjacent voters their actions have cost them?

Sad about Michel Lonsdale; I hope he died happy, fulfilled and at peace.

bure wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:43 pm

liquidnature wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:37 pm The cognitive dissonance of modern leftist progressivism, especially when marinated thoroughly in manipulated journalistic propaganda and embroidered in grave-clothes cultural marxism, is astounding. That a singular mind could doubly execute the mental gymnastics of deriding decades old trump marital affairs while praising a piece of lauded trash such as "WAP" openly is a hilariously profound exercise in moral hypocrisy. The Left are pure hypocrites. Cut and dried. Having the gall to libel trump's geopolitics while offering unflinching support of obama's endless civilian dronestrikes and clinton's intoxication with sinister globalism and open child exploitation. Supporting bernie's plan for redistribution while he sits on millions and three houses garnered through the capitalist system to which he feigns contempt. Pretending to care about the constitution while daily advocating for its disintegration. Deeming words violence, and silence violence, but violence itself not to be violence. Claiming to be anti-fascist while forcefully shutting down every facet of free speech, censoring every wellspring of truth, altering history, and banning any dissenters. Burning down the American cities and black neighborhoods they pretend to enshrine. Give me a break. Hypocrites.

Congrats, this is the stupidest thing anyone's posted here since we banned Damian

Well I'm sure this Damian fellow simply offered a countering opinion, which, to the oh so tolerant and loving modern Left, is grounds for banning, censorship, physical assault, or death threats.

RIP Michael Lonsdale, fantastic actor.

liquidnature wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:29 am Well I'm sure this Damian fellow simply offered a countering opinion, which, to the oh so tolerant and loving modern Left, is grounds for banning, censorship, physical assault, or death threats.

nah, if you painted the most grotesque caricature of a strident 'progressive' who calls americans 'fascists' while advocating for conservatives to be put in political reeducation camps (not a joke), you'd get damian. the kind of person ben shapiro or dave rubin invent out of whole cloth when they describe 'progressives', that's damian. i didn't think those people actually existed in real life, but they do. they are rare. most progressives aren't like that, which is why what you wrote earlier was a lengthy straw man.

i'm not sure if what you wrote was directed at certain people here, but we banned the only person you might have been describing (mainly because he was insulting other members on a daily basis). so that's not the ship we're on.

liquidnature wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:37 pm The cognitive dissonance of modern leftist progressivism, especially when marinated thoroughly in manipulated journalistic propaganda and embroidered in grave-clothes cultural marxism, is astounding. That a singular mind could doubly execute the mental gymnastics of deriding decades old trump marital affairs while praising a piece of lauded trash such as "WAP" openly is a hilariously profound exercise in moral hypocrisy. The Left are pure hypocrites. Cut and dried. Having the gall to libel trump's geopolitics while offering unflinching support of obama's endless civilian dronestrikes and clinton's intoxication with sinister globalism and open child exploitation. Supporting bernie's plan for redistribution while he sits on millions and three houses garnered through the capitalist system to which he feigns contempt. Pretending to care about the constitution while daily advocating for its disintegration. Deeming words violence, and silence violence, but violence itself not to be violence. Claiming to be anti-fascist while forcefully shutting down every facet of free speech, censoring every wellspring of truth, altering history, and banning any dissenters. Burning down the American cities and black neighborhoods they pretend to enshrine. Give me a break. Hypocrites.

any time someone you see someone bring out the "but bernie has 3 houses!" you know that they dont know anything about any topic (even including things like backgammon or chess)

That a singular mind could doubly execute the mental gymnastics of deriding decades old trump marital affairs while praising a piece of lauded trash such as "WAP" openly is a hilariously profound exercise in moral hypocrisy.

Just watched Lonsdale in The Phantom of Liberty, which he was amazing in, but didn't realise he was still alive until he died. RIP to a real one

https://variety.com/2020/film/people-ne ... 234778398/

Michael Chapman, cinematographer, 84

MrCarmady wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:35 am That a singular mind could doubly execute the mental gymnastics of deriding decades old trump marital affairs while praising a piece of lauded trash such as "WAP" openly is a hilariously profound exercise in moral hypocrisy.

Two questions:

Why are you repeating this comment, making it look like your own comment? And what is WAP?

pabs wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:47 am

MrCarmady wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:35 am That a singular mind could doubly execute the mental gymnastics of deriding decades old trump marital affairs while praising a piece of lauded trash such as "WAP" openly is a hilariously profound exercise in moral hypocrisy.

Two questions:

Why are you repeating this comment, making it look like your own comment? And what is WAP?

1) https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... =copypasta
2) https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=WAP
Specifically the 2nd meaning, it's a song by Cardi B from this year.