SCFZ

flip wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:23 amwhy will anyone in their base ever vote again?

for the same exact reason that they still get out and vote every single time, even though it's been drilled in their heads for decades that 'government is the problem'

On a certain level this is just a standard defense mechanism. Hard for people to admit they came up short and lost. It has to be someone else’s fault. Last time, it was the Russians, and the Green Party, and Bernie bros not voting for Hillary. This time it’s fake ballots and such. The two reactions differ in scale and intensity (the trump version is clearly more dangerous and sinister) but they have a lot in common.

except that trump said all along he'd never accept anything but a win. he said it was rigged last time too

yeah emotion gets people to the polls that was certainly clear this year

the story i've heard from several people is that 'al gore was president in 2000 but bush overturned the election with a recount.' widespread on facebook i guess

they don't like it when i tell them what really happened(bush had the count stopped, gore was never president and they were separated by less than 600 votes in a single state)

gore shoulda held out. and guess who organized that escapade? why none other than trump's buddy roger stone the dirty trickster

GA sec of state (a republican!) says lindsay graham (chairman of the senate judiciary committee!) has been trying to get him to toss lawful ballots

ALSO also also here in AZ libertarian party got 50,000 votes. and trump lost by around 11,000

kanafani wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:53 am rile them up

Maybe if there were some way to convince them their R votes were getting flipped en masse and contributing to more crushinger D victories.

Just for the sake of pursuing that sliver of civility and "mit feinart" that D governance currently represents.

rischka wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:12 amthey don't like it when i tell them what really happened

people don't like being corrected, but if you say to them, 'turn the tables, if trump won by x number of votes, but still lost cuz of the electoral college, you'd be pissed, right?'

more than likely, they'd tell you 'yes.' polling shows people across the spectrum agree on a lot of things. it's the politicians and their puppet masters that get in the way

and also the racism

k i'ma go watch a film and try to enjoy the moment.

word is trump wants to attack iran to fuck up the treaty

That or they will give up on voting and just turn to violence to "fix" those damned liberals and their rigged system.

greg x wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:37 am That or they will give up on voting and just turn to violence to "fix" those damned liberals and their rigged system.

Yep, that could be a real possibility a few years down the line if things continue on this path, especially if the next trumpian iteration is more competent and driven by power rather than celebrity and money.

That's as much why I've been concerned about how the election has played out as any strong worry about a Trump coup right now, though he'd certainly be someone willing to go that route should there be enough others to do the heavy lifting. It's mostly a question of how many people are ready to toss out the constitution to support a dictator they like. Biden sure isn't likely to do enough on his own to alleviate the problem especially if the Senate remains McConnell's baby. It might even be that Trump running on a third party ticket, should that ever come to be, exacerbates the problem rather than guaranteeing a Democrat wins as even the Republicans can't withstand a complete failure of norms. But we'll see...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Caus ... onfederacy

grievance is a powerful motivator.

the latest in this stupid saga: wayne county in michigan deadlocked on certifying the vote. republican chairwoman says she's open to certifying communities "other than detroit." black votes don't matter? this nonsense can't continue

almost done with a rewatch of the west wing (which i know is an extremely dramatized version of 'politics'), and just saw an ep where the president-elect is speaking to the prospective speaker of the house about wanting to make campaign/electoral/voting reform the first item on the agenda, and the presumed speaker scoffs and refuses, and the president-elect tells him, 'this is the bill that allows us to pass all the other bills.' sigh. it's sad when characters on tv shows figure out the exact things you wish some people would figure out irl...

rischka wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:36 am black votes don't matter? this nonsense can't continue

As long as there are Republicans, it will continue. Count on it.

I enjoyed this podcast discussing the Trump family and Trumpism post election:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/a ... 0498445506

Some interesting thoughts in there.

It's two journos, Emily Jane Fox and Joe Hagan, from Vanity Fair and Rolling Stone respectively, mulling through what might happen with the Trumps over the next four years and beyond.

not in to podcasts normally but my favorite has been gaslit nation with sarah kendzior and andrea chalupa. very insightful since the beginning

wanting to make campaign/electoral/voting reform the first item on the agenda

republicans will never allow this. now they've got the supreme court, they won't have to. i've been waiting for trump to destroy this anti-democratic party for 5 years now but they're only getting stronger. note that instead of working on a stimulus bill, they're STILL pushing through unqualified judges

https://twitter.com/leedrutman/status/1 ... 48740?s=20

This is getting too depressing.

rudy has uncovered the real villains: hugo chavez and venezuela! and probably cuba and the chinese

https://twitter.com/aseitzwald/status/1 ... 86310?s=20

this is really happening. it's all so STUPID. bernie getting popular was too much for them

our secretary of state is getting death threats. armed people are marching outside her home

https://twitter.com/SecretaryHobbs/stat ... 69284?s=20

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoen ... tside-home

people are STILL asking me who really won the election. so their strategy is working. a friend went to buy a gun today, he was #46 in line depressing doesn't begin to cover it

GA certifies tmrw, PA and MI on monday

https://twitter.com/LisPower1/status/13 ... 59233?s=20

it's no four seasons landscaping but check out rudy's hair dye. and here's the venezuela stuff

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1329 ... 52769?s=20

just ABSURD levels of gaslighting. but it will keep the result in doubt for a lot of stupid people who don't believe the 'fake news media'

An election stealing conspiracy led by dumbass Rudy Giuliani does not exactly fill me with fear. Where are the James Bakers of yesteryear? Yet another symptom of the decline of the empire.

https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1329 ... 84288?s=20

ok i'll stop letting twitter upset me. and i am never buying a gun

romney and sasse come out against trump. fucking finally! you love to see it folks

https://twitter.com/gregpmiller/status/ ... 91841?s=20

Great, now the Brunch Democrats can embrace Romney to their bosoms. Qui bono?

Lencho of the Apes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:31 am Great, now the Brunch Democrats can embrace Romney to their bosoms. Qui bono?

they did that when obama died on the sword of his health care program

tthis has to be the stupidest chapter in american history

To anyone who's interested, there's a good article on AOC in the latest edition of Vanity Fair.



I'm putting it in the usual place in the next 10 minutes.

i'm not sure there's much reason to post about all of this, but when even the most rightwing pollsters didn't expect trump to win, i don't know why people think it must be fraud when he doesn't win. everyone knew he was going to lose. wtf, i don't get it.

because next time it might be closer and then this would work. republican voters will expect it. they're destroying democracy

the plan now is to try and delay certification of the vote and convince republican legislatures to appoint a trump set of electors. that's not going to work either. but it's thrilling the cultists. and they will ride this wave of grievance till the next election. this is how they maintain white minority rule

i swear to god somebody better prosecute trump. i'm for impeaching him again right now. this is sedition

flip wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:54 pm i'm not sure there's much reason to post about all of this, but when even the most rightwing pollsters didn't expect trump to win, i don't know why people think it must be fraud when he doesn't win. everyone knew he was going to lose. wtf, i don't get it.

Flip you're such a vulcan

Apollonian logic and reason are great tools to explain why people do what they do in certain cases, but in politics (US politics in particular) they often come up way short. There's a lot of emotion and impulse in politics - it's mostly based on spite and the desire to destroy and humiliate your opponent. The starting point of the Trump base is that the opponent (liberals, democrats, the left, whatever) are utterly evil. The origins of the feeling are grounded in history and material circumstances, but it is experienced as a quasi-religious, mystical truth. If your starting point is that the enemy is irredeemable, then of course the election was rigged, makes total "sense", that is the only possibility.