Letterboxd Stats showdown: jimmy Stewart / John Wayne
Re: Letterboxd Stats showdown: jimmy Stewart / John Wayne
I like it. Bette Davis versus Barbara Stanwyck will be our next showdown.
My guess is Stanwyck has the advantage from movies people would have watched, as she appeared in a number of films by directors that are well liked here, but Davis really is sui-generis and deserves to have her prominence recognized, not the least for single-handedly subverting the misogynistic impulse prevalent throughout so many movies of her career. There's no other actress I know of who so frequently took on roles designed to diminish women and through sheer force of presence draws viewers to her characters despite their actions. She's really amazing.
That's not to knock Stanwyck's own abilities, she's great, like Stewart, the range in her roles is hard to match. It's also not meant to slight actresses like Crawford, who may be second to Davis in commanding appreciation for otherwise unlikable characters, or Rogers, who's possibly the closest in range of abilities to Grant, but without the benefit of great directors/roles to showcase that talent and the bias aging actresses face that actors don't. There are also, of course, many great non-US actresses, but I'm not sure how well represented their bodies of work would be to rate, since I suspect the movies seen will tally more with the directors people like than their careers alone.
That's not to knock Stanwyck's own abilities, she's great, like Stewart, the range in her roles is hard to match. It's also not meant to slight actresses like Crawford, who may be second to Davis in commanding appreciation for otherwise unlikable characters, or Rogers, who's possibly the closest in range of abilities to Grant, but without the benefit of great directors/roles to showcase that talent and the bias aging actresses face that actors don't. There are also, of course, many great non-US actresses, but I'm not sure how well represented their bodies of work would be to rate, since I suspect the movies seen will tally more with the directors people like than their careers alone.
Yay again I love both -- not many ratings but many hearts I suspect. Good call Gregx
they’ve both starred in 100+ movies. The showdown will have some very long tables.
not for me, i can't stand bette davis. there's something of the reptile about her. but i will start rating again if these showdowns are going to continue. prepare for an avalanche of 3's....
Wowser, I love Stanwyck but I've seen a pitiful 4 from each of these actresses. This would give me a good excuse to watch my copy of Stella Dallas, though.
Have you tried any of Davis' pre-codes? She's still Davis, but younger and often more pleasurable for facing down lesser men without the story needing to wholly condemn her for it, even as they still try to soften the end to keep the men relevant.
I'm guessing it won't be more than 40ish movies with views for either, mostly due to me I'm afraid, with a lot of single ratings unless some other old Hollywood people join in the ratings. I'd wager most of the regulars won't a ton of movies rated by either since so much of their work wasn't with "auteurs".they’ve both starred in 100+ movies. The showdown will have some very long tables.
i haven't seen any of her pre-codes no, which should i start with? (if it had been crawford - rogers i'd have happily watched a ton)
Three on a Match is fun and seems well liked. It was one of the first pre-codes I saw her in and she doesn't dominate the picture. She's billed below Joan Blondell and Ann Dvorak.
I like her character in Ex-Lady a lot, it's the movie I was most thinking of in saying they soften the ending a bit more than they should have to give the Gene Raymond a bit more standing, but the pair do well together and Davis' character's generally more modern sense of values is refreshing.
As for the early post codes,
1935's Dangerous is maybe the real start of the later Davis persona where she begins to really take over the films, so I can't exactly recommend it but if you're a Franchot Tone fan it might something worth checking out to see an earlier incarnation of her persona before she became the Hollywood anti-heroine.
Some of the other movies in that time pair her with more powerful actors than would often later be the case, so maybe some of them might find her slightly more palatable. Marked Woman or Kid Galahad perhaps. Petrified Forest gets a lot of attention, but I'm not sure it's aged as well with Lesley Howard, Davis, and Bogart being such an odd mix.
I like her character in Ex-Lady a lot, it's the movie I was most thinking of in saying they soften the ending a bit more than they should have to give the Gene Raymond a bit more standing, but the pair do well together and Davis' character's generally more modern sense of values is refreshing.
As for the early post codes,
1935's Dangerous is maybe the real start of the later Davis persona where she begins to really take over the films, so I can't exactly recommend it but if you're a Franchot Tone fan it might something worth checking out to see an earlier incarnation of her persona before she became the Hollywood anti-heroine.
Some of the other movies in that time pair her with more powerful actors than would often later be the case, so maybe some of them might find her slightly more palatable. Marked Woman or Kid Galahad perhaps. Petrified Forest gets a lot of attention, but I'm not sure it's aged as well with Lesley Howard, Davis, and Bogart being such an odd mix.
For more general recommendations, should anyone else be wondering, the Wyler films, Now Voyager, and, for me, All This and Heaven Too, a Litvak movie with Boyer, are Davis' later best movies. I'm hoping to rewatch that last movie and at least get to So Big, the movie Davis made with Stanwyck.
If you want to rate a Davis film but don't really care for Bette, then James Whale's Waterloo Bridge might be the ticket as Davis only has a supporting role, but the film is pretty great in its Whaley hysteric way.
If you want to rate a Davis film but don't really care for Bette, then James Whale's Waterloo Bridge might be the ticket as Davis only has a supporting role, but the film is pretty great in its Whaley hysteric way.
I can highly recommend The Whales of August (Lindsay Anderson, 1987). Bette Davis' second to last film.
I've watched it a few years ago and it is still one of my favorite films of the 80s.
And you also get to see Lillian Gish (93 at the time, her last film), Ann Sothern (who got nominated for her role, also her last film) and Vincent Price.
I've watched it a few years ago and it is still one of my favorite films of the 80s.
And you also get to see Lillian Gish (93 at the time, her last film), Ann Sothern (who got nominated for her role, also her last film) and Vincent Price.
Thanks again kanafani, this was great fun, as usual. I see it as your xmas present to all of us.
I don't have many of these ladies' films under my belt either, and even though I want Stanwyk to win - who knows? - could be I might have rated Davis's films higher overall, putting me on her side.
I even like that syrupy tv mini-series The Thorn Birds, just coz of Stanwyk.
I don't have many of these ladies' films under my belt either, and even though I want Stanwyk to win - who knows? - could be I might have rated Davis's films higher overall, putting me on her side.
I even like that syrupy tv mini-series The Thorn Birds, just coz of Stanwyk.
I love Stanwyck and I love Davis.
Some of my favorite films who happen to have Davis acting in them:
The Bad Sister (1930)
20,000 Years in Sing Sing (1932)
Ex-Lady (1933)
Kid Galahad (1937)
Jezebel (1938)
The Letter (1940)
Now, Voyager (1942)
What Ever Happened to Baby Jane ? (1962)
Some of my favorite films who happen to have Davis acting in them:
The Bad Sister (1930)
20,000 Years in Sing Sing (1932)
Ex-Lady (1933)
Kid Galahad (1937)
Jezebel (1938)
The Letter (1940)
Now, Voyager (1942)
What Ever Happened to Baby Jane ? (1962)
To please the majority is the requirement of the Planet Cinema. As far as I'm concerned, I don't make a concession to viewers, these victims of life, who think that a film is made only for their enjoyment, and who know nothing about their own existence.
I love Babs Stanwyck! Haven't seen as much Bette Davis, but I've definitely seen and like a bunch. Should be an interesting matchup