Six degrees of celluloid separation

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Idea courtesy of kanafani. See viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3&start=281 for an explanation

To add a little structure: this will work like the movie game. If you guess correctly, you pick the next one. Say how many degrees of separation there are. If someone comes up with a connection of that many degrees or fewer, they win. But they shouldn't be able to find fewer.

Are we allowing more than actors and directors? Maybe screenwriters? kanafani?

Here's a pretty tough one (watch someone get it within 10 minutes lol) to start: 5 degrees of separation between Pierre Etaix and William A. Wellman

[kanafani]

Are we allowing more than actors and directors? Maybe screenwriters? kanafani?

Sure, why not. Writers, producers, editors are often available off the movie’s page on letterboxd...

[Lencho of the Apes]

I can do it in 3.
Shall I?

EDIT: Yeah, I just reread the rules, so I'll go ahead.

William Wellman - Dir: Nothing Sacred, screenplay Ben Hecht
Ben Hecht - screenplay Living It Up, starring Jerry Lewis
Jerry Lewis - dir The Day The Clown Cried, supporting actor Pierre Etaix

[kanafani]

I can do it in 3.
Shall I?

DO IT!

[Lencho of the Apes]

See above.

[---]

I can do it in 3.
Shall I?

EDIT: Yeah, I just reread the rules, so I'll go ahead.

William Wellman - Dir: Nothing Sacred, screenplay Ben Hecht
Ben Hecht - screenplay Living It Up, starring Jerry Lewis
Jerry Lewis - dir The Day The Clown Cried, supporting actor Pierre Etaix

God damn, that's impressive. I didn't expect there to be an alternate route with Etaix in there, but I had no idea he was in The Day the Clown Cried. I think your solution is technically 5 degrees also though:

Wellman directed Nothing Sacred (0)
Nothing Sacred was written by Hecht (1)
Hecht wrote Living It Up (2)
Living It Up starred Jerry Lewis (3)
Jerry Lewis directed The Day the Clown Cried (4)
The Day the Clown Cried featured Etaix (5)

I'm assuming there are considered to be 0 degrees between Wellman and a movie directed by Wellman. My solution had as many lines (6) as the one above.

My less inventive answer:

Wellman directed The Ox-Bow Incident
The Ox-Bow Incident starred Anthony Quinn
Anthony Quinn starred in La Strada
La Strada was directed by Fellini
Fellini directed I Clowns
I Clowns starred Etaix

[---]

Either way, you're up!

[Lencho of the Apes]

Next question: Take me from Nagisa Oshima to Hugo Fregonese as quickly as possible.

[...]

Max Mon Amour Oshima Charlotte Rampling
Purple Taxi Charlotte Rampling Peter Ustinov
I girovaghi Ustinov Fregonese

[Lencho of the Apes]

Very good, essentially the same as my version:

Oshima/Rampling: Max Mon Amour
Rampling/James Mason: Georgie Girl
Mason/Fregonese: Odd Man Out

You're up, Greg!

[...]

Max Schreck to Kristin Stewart

I can see it in five, but there should be a four or less to find. Ah, found it.

Now I gotta get some sleep since that kept me up past my bedtime, dang it.

[kanafani]

Someday I'll update my code to brute force a path between any two people (regardless of profession/role). It can serve as a baseline I guess. But y'all seem to be doing mighty fine on your own!

[thoxans]

well damn. i'm not better at this than i am at guess the movie. not at all

[kanafani]

I can do it in 3.
Shall I?

EDIT: Yeah, I just reread the rules, so I'll go ahead.

William Wellman - Dir: Nothing Sacred, screenplay Ben Hecht
Ben Hecht - screenplay Living It Up, starring Jerry Lewis
Jerry Lewis - dir The Day The Clown Cried, supporting actor Pierre Etaix

God damn, that's impressive. I didn't expect there to be an alternate route with Etaix in there, but I had no idea he was in The Day the Clown Cried. I think your solution is technically 5 degrees also though:

Wellman directed Nothing Sacred (0)
Nothing Sacred was written by Hecht (1)
Hecht wrote Living It Up (2)
Living It Up starred Jerry Lewis (3)
Jerry Lewis directed The Day the Clown Cried (4)
The Day the Clown Cried featured Etaix (5)

I'm assuming there are considered to be 0 degrees between Wellman and a movie directed by Wellman. My solution had as many lines (6) as the one above.

My less inventive answer:

Wellman directed The Ox-Bow Incident
The Ox-Bow Incident starred Anthony Quinn
Anthony Quinn starred in La Strada
La Strada was directed by Fellini
Fellini directed I Clowns
I Clowns starred Etaix

pierre etaix starred in the Clowns (0)
The Clowns also stars anita ekberg (1)
anita ekberg also stars in Blood Alley (2)
which is directed by William Wellman (3)

[kanafani]

Max Mon Amour Oshima Charlotte Rampling
Purple Taxi Charlotte Rampling Peter Ustinov
I girovaghi Ustinov Fregonese

There are apparently dozens of roads that connect those two. Here's one:

0. Oshima made Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence..
1. which stars David Bowie
2. Who was also in group madness
3. which features James Mason
4. who was in one way street
5. which was directed by Hugo Fregonese

[Lencho of the Apes]

I have Max > Kristen in 4, but I'll sit back and let other chimps go for it.

[arkheia]

Hmm, I couldn't get it under five. Here's mine so far...

Max Schreck starred in Murnau's Nosferatu (1922)
Murnau also directed Sunrise (1927) with an uncredited role by Sidney Bracey
Sidney Bracey acted alongside Keye Luke in Charlie Chan at the Race Track (1936)
Keye Luke also acted in Woody Allen's Alice (1990)
Woody Allen directed Kristen Stewart in Café Society (2016)

[kanafani]

I'll list one of the bunch of fives I got (my code did not hit anything shorter, which means either it can be improved or some of the required info is missing from some letterboxd pages):

0. Max Schreck stars in 100 Years of Horror: The Count and Company (1996) ...
1. which also features Roger Corman...
2. who also starred in the Godfather: Part II...
3. which also featured Robert De Niro...
4. who also starred in What Just Happened...
5. which also featured Kristen Stewart

[pabs]

.
Ha! I was thinking of introducing this game months ago. I saw it played on a pop/rock-music forum where people connected musicians/music artists with anyone else on the planet. E.g., "Connect David Bowie to Ronald Reagan with the fewest connections".
.

[Lencho of the Apes]

There are certain movies that act as pivot-points, making it easier to move from one branch of film culture to another one. My solution to Greg's question uses two of them.

Max Schreck/William Dieterle - Ludwig II, King Of Bavaria
William Dieterle/James Cagney - Midsummer Nights Dream
James Cagney/Samuel Jackson - Ragtime
Samuel Jackson/Kristen Stewart - Jumper

Next puzzle: What's the shortest route from Jean Harlow to Eva Mattes?

[Lencho of the Apes]

Also, I would be disinclined to use anthology movies like 100 Years Of Horror in this context. The fact that footage of Max Schreck was edited into proximity with footage of another person doesn't imply that there ever was any personal contact between the two.

[kanafani]

There are certain movies that act as pivot-points, making it easier to move from one branch of film culture to another one. My solution to Greg's question uses two of them.

Max Schreck/William Dieterle - Ludwig II, King Of Bavaria
William Dieterle/James Cagney - Midsummer Nights Dream
James Cagney/Samuel Jackson - Ragtime
Samuel Jackson/Kristen Stewart - Jumper

Next puzzle: What's the shortest route from Jean Harlow to Eva Mattes?

Wait, this is seven degrees, no?

0. Max Schreck in Ludwig II, King Of Bavaria
1. William Dieterle directed Ludwig II, King Of Bavaria
2. William Dieterle also directed Midsummer Nights Dream
3. Cagney in Midsummer Nights Dream
4. Cagney in Ragtime
5. Samuel Jackson also in ragtime
6. Samuel Jackson in jumper
7. Kristen Stewart in jumper

[kanafani]

Here is a shorter Schreck/Stewart that does not use anthology movies

0. Schreck is in Wolga Wolga (1928)
1. Wolga also stars Feodor Chaliapin Jr...
2. who is in moonstruck...
3. along with nicolas cage...
4. who is in Love, Antosha (2019!) ...
5. and so is Stewart

Another one:

0. Schreck is in The Finances of the Grand Duke (1924) ...
1. on which Franz Planer worked (cinematography)
2. Planer also worked on Stage Struck (1958)
3. which starred christopher plummer
4. who is also in cold creek manor
5. which stars Stewart

[kanafani]

I think the rules need to be clarified a little... If greg x (who suggested Schreck/Stewart) has a shorter path than any other suggested path, shouldn't he get to 'win' (i.e. pick another one for example)? Also it would be cool if we can incorporate the code somehow. Like if you find a path that is equal to or shorter than the code, you win, otherwise the code wins? Ideas?

Also, I do not think anything beyond 6 degrees should count. It's called six degrees, just sayin

[Lencho of the Apes]

We seem to be approaching the counting in two different ways; I don't understand why "Dieterle to Dieterle" should be considered a degree of separation. I still maintain that my version involved links between five people, A to B, B to C, C to D, and D to E. One degree, two degrees, three degrees, four degrees. Red degree, blue degree, hop on pop.

1 Schreck - Dieterle
2 Dieterle - Cagney
3 Cagney - Jackson
4 Jackson - Stewart

Clarify that and explain it in a way that every player will be able to apply the rule equally to their gaming.

By my understanding, the Finances Of The Grand Duke one is three degrees --

Schreck/Planer
Planer/Plummer
Plummer/Stewart

But I don't really want to compete against an AI. Life's too short.

[kanafani]

We seem to be approaching the counting in two different ways; I don't understand why "Dieterle to Dieterle" should be considered a degree of separation. I still maintain that my version involved links between five people, A to B, B to C, C to D, and D to E. One degree, two degrees, three degrees, four degrees. Red degree, blue degree, hop on pop.

1 Schreck - Dieterle
2 Dieterle - Cagney
3 Cagney - Jackson
4 Jackson - Stewart

Clarify that and explain it in a way that every player will be able to apply the rule equally to their gaming.

By my understanding, the Finances Of The Grand Duke one is three degrees --

Schreck/Planer
Planer/Plummer
Plummer/Stewart

But I don't really want to compete against an AI. Life's too short.

For me it's about how many points you need to use to get from A to B, so I treat movies and people the same.

Schreck-> Ludwig II, King Of Bavaria -> William Dieterle -> Midsummer Nights Dream -> Cagney -> Ragtime -> Samuel Jackson -> jumper -> Kristen Stewart

There are 7 entities between A and B (Schreck=A and Stewart =B). Makes sense? I do not think there is a right and wrong answer here. I just feel that 7 points is a tad too much.

You don't need to beat the AI, just get a draw. Come on, it's fun and challenging! This lack of nerdiness is unfortunate.

[---]

I think the idea is that the movies count as connections too, so every connection should feature one movie and one person, one of which is in the previous connection and one of which is in the next connection

[...]

My path (though I think I may be counting steps differently than Kanafani)

The Tunnel - Max Schreck/Curtis Bernhardt (director)
Kisses for My President - Bernhardt/Eli Wallach
Night and the City - Wallach/Robert Deniro
What Just Happened - Deniro/Kristin Stewart

Each movie is a step as I figure it, though that might be clearer were the two people listed first I suppose, and, yeah, there's surely many paths to the same end, just gotta try to find the least amount of films. (I gotta vote against clip movies, but might accept movies that show characters watching an old film, maybe, if the scene was significant enough)

[kanafani]

OK, how about we define the degree as the number of movies you need to connect two people? So, in the examples above, gregx's number is 4, lencho's is also 4, and mine is 3. Works for me.

Now if we can't work out a way to include the code I wrote in this game, it's all good, but me and my code will sulkily walk out of this game. I think at least if nobody can go below the proposed degree (here, 4), then the code should get a chance to challenge it. If someone else finds the same degree as the code, then they get precedence. Otherwise the code wins.

[---]

Okay, using the number of movies method, can anyone connect Straub/Huillet to James Franco in three films or fewer?

This might be easier than I think; I know little about S/H and their oeuvre