Polling the films of director Vera Chytilova
The rules:
- your list can include no more than half of the Chytilova films you've seen, up to a maximum of 5. So if you've seen seven of her films, for example, you can list only a top 3. It's only if you've seen ten or more of her films than you can list the maximum of five.
- i'll assume ballots are ranked unless you tell me otherwise. unranked ballots are fine.
- deadline for ballots: next Tuesday, in seven days, whatever day that is
- if anyone is watching films for these polls, then i'll extend the deadline up to three days, if someone requests an extension
- next poll: whoever posts the first ballot in this thread is free to nominate the director we poll next, unless you've nominated in this round already (everyone should get a chance). Already nominated this round: greennui, bure, roscoe, kanafani, greg x, silga, oscarwerner, john ryan, mrcarmady, umbugbene, evelyn, m arkadin, jiri
umbugbene created an index on letterboxd of all of our previous polls here: letterboxd.com/umbugbene/list/index-of-all-scfz-director-polls/
one rule for nominees: at least 3 scfzers need to have seen 10+ of a nominee's films, or at least 4 scfzers need to have seen at least 8 of the nom's films, so if it isn't clear if that will be the case, we'll confirm that's true before moving forward
if 24 hours pass after a poll opens, and no one eligible to nominate has posted a ballot, then i'll nominate someone, and then we'll start over, and everyone will be able to nominate again
SCFZ poll: Vera Chytilova
we'll use the extended rules for this:
- if you have seen an odd number of films, you can round up instead of down when deciding the length of your ballot (e.g. if you've seen 7, you can list a top 4 rather than the usual top 3)
- if you have seen more than 10 films, you can list more than 5, subject to the restriction above. so if you have seen 13, you can list up to 7 films... and please do! that will help us get to a top ten
- if you have seen an odd number of films, you can round up instead of down when deciding the length of your ballot (e.g. if you've seen 7, you can list a top 4 rather than the usual top 3)
- if you have seen more than 10 films, you can list more than 5, subject to the restriction above. so if you have seen 13, you can list up to 7 films... and please do! that will help us get to a top ten
Daisies
seen two
seen two
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Monsieur Arkadin
- Posts: 412
- Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 5:56 pm
Daisies
Also seen 2. I'll try to get more so I can have a less boring ballot.
Edit: Not that Daisies is boring, because that's the last word I'd ever dare to assign it.
Also seen 2. I'll try to get more so I can have a less boring ballot.
Edit: Not that Daisies is boring, because that's the last word I'd ever dare to assign it.
Seen two, both contained too much incessant frolicking for my taste (probably my least favourite thing prevalent in this era of New Wave films). Could probably stand to give Daises another try though as it's been a while.
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der kulterer
- Posts: 3126
- Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:30 am
- Location: Prague, Bohemia
1. A Bagful of Fleas
2. Daisies
3. Fruit of Paradise
4. Searching for Ester
5. Prefab Story
6. Pearls of the Deep (IV): The Globe Buffet
7. The Very Late Afternoon of a Faun
8. The Jester and the Queen
9. Green Street
10. Wolf's Hole
TRAPS
EXPULSION FROM PARADISE
THE APPLE GAME
SOMETHING DIFFERENT
A HOOF HERE, A HOOF THERE
THE INHERITANCE OR FUCKOFFGUYSGOODDAY
CALAMITY
PLEASANT MOMENTS
CEILING
PRAGUE: THE RESTLESS HEART OF EUROPE
2. Daisies
3. Fruit of Paradise
4. Searching for Ester
5. Prefab Story
6. Pearls of the Deep (IV): The Globe Buffet
7. The Very Late Afternoon of a Faun
8. The Jester and the Queen
9. Green Street
10. Wolf's Hole
TRAPS
EXPULSION FROM PARADISE
THE APPLE GAME
SOMETHING DIFFERENT
A HOOF HERE, A HOOF THERE
THE INHERITANCE OR FUCKOFFGUYSGOODDAY
CALAMITY
PLEASANT MOMENTS
CEILING
PRAGUE: THE RESTLESS HEART OF EUROPE
Last edited by der kulterer on Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:42 am, edited 13 times in total.
i've only seen daisies and liked it well enough but no point in voting for it
this might be one of those weeks where i manage to create a decent ballot out of nothing, let's see
this might be one of those weeks where i manage to create a decent ballot out of nothing, let's see
seen 3 BUT I WILL WATCH MORE (IF i can get off my arse)
Green Street
Daisies
Green Street
Daisies
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der kulterer
- Posts: 3126
- Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:30 am
- Location: Prague, Bohemia
Upon closer examination, I watched not 13 but 15 films...
1/ GREEN STREET, A BAGFUL OF FLEAS, DAISIES i like a lot because of the sumptuous quantity of internal (or external) monologues (eventually "Marie I." speaking to "Marie II."). In general (maybe due to coming-of-age in regime predominated by the double-speak), I am more interested in the inner voices of ppl than their outward communication. GREEN STREET is a short school film (an exercise). I see it as the precursor to A BAGFUL OF FLEAS which is my absolute favorite (among all the Věra's films). I subtitled A BAGFUL OF FLEAS and thus was able to examine it minutely (later, official subtitles emerged). It is (almost) solely an internal monologue of the main heroine. I see it as the precursor to DAISIES.
2/ PREFAB STORY i like due to my general interest in architecture (social housing in this case) and in the absurd. This film offers both. Its ideal double bill would be the short i mentioned during 1963 poll...
4/ WOLF'S HOLE i consider Věra's strangest film. i was not yet a fully matured "esoteric wtf movie guy" when i watched it for the first time and thus it was too odd even for me. When i rewatched it later, it doesn't seem that strange anymore. It was still quite long ago, so i would need to rewatch it (again) to be able to go into more details. However, now, checking the local movie database i discovered scenes from this film were used by a band called "Outerspass" for their song called "Frosty". Oddity of this clip might give you an idea of the oddity of the source film (disclaimer: not all the scenes in the clip are scenes from WOLF'S HOLE)...
https://youtu.be/t8TXfuXGwqI
5/ THE JESTER AND THE QUEEN is a playdaptation. Bolek Polívka (jester) is a mime who achieved local fame beyond limits (up to appearing extensively in various popular local tv talk shows and alike)- Chantal Poullain (queen) is his then-wife (nowadays ex-wife). She was one of the very few ppl (born in the West, France) who (prior the fall of the Iron Curtain) opted to live in the East (marrying Easterner). She was not yet very fluent in Czech at that time and thus they made (with a hubby) a stage play about a (imagined) medieval foreign (occupant) queen and her jester (ironical of her power). No wonder it was popular in a Soviet satellite country (it was already perestroika time, the ruling class was already loosing the power and thus it was not banned). Based on the play was made a film. It has no subs, I was considering to subtitle it, but due to jester & queen permanently going from Czech (many times mispronounced by the queen and her mispronunciation ridiculed by jester) to German and to French and back (some sort of a wordplay almost permanently in action), it would be extremely hard to translate it properly (so til now i didn't dare to try but in the future who knows? maybe?).
6/ In the 1980s, Bolek Polívka (jester) became Věra's favorite actor (often cast by her even in 1990s). Besides him (more and more popular among locals and more and more annoying to me), she started to cast repetitively few more actors towards whom i developed aversion and thus i started to avoid Věra's later flicks. TRAPS is the exception of the rule. Despite (mostly) annoying cast, the basic storyline of this film i find noteworthy...
7/ CALAMITY and THE INHERITANCE OR FUCKOFFGUYSGOODDAY are two examples of films i watched and are starred by (annoying) Bolek & crew.
8/ Věra has two children. Her son is a cinematographer (as his father)- Her daughter is a costume designer and a wife of a local popular actor Tomáš Hanák who is the hero of A HOOF HERE, A HOOF THERE. I watched it in cinema after its release (in 1989) and thus all i can remember is, it was something about the then-trendy topic of AIDS. I would need to rewatch it to go into details.
9/ My memory of THE VERY LATE AFTERNOON OF A FAUN is also blurred. I can only share amusing trivia that an actor who played the main male character of this film was taking tranquilizers to be able to cope with Věra, while shooting this film. i can't tell what specifically made him to be almost permanently on the verge of mental breakdown, but i know Věra liked to speak about her ability to exploit the fear & terror of males exposed to fits of feminine hysteria. She liked to stage such fits (of someone "hysterical in floral dress") to make assaults on the exponents of local then-patriarchate. (Allegedly) she fancied (when she was banned to make films) chasing exponents of the regime (holding by hands her small children) and telling (in front of these big shots) loud to her offsprings, "You see, kids, this MAN is responsible for your mom not being able to work, to make the living, and because of this MAN we are starving!" She also spiced her overplayed fits of hysteria with few suicide threads and, as a result, the MEN in charge of the local culture and cinema production were shit scared of her (permanently hiding from her — to be sparred of the confrontation with the "hysterical woman"). Whenever Věra was telling these stories from the past, she always had her mild mischievous ironical smile.
10/ PRAGUE: THE RESTLESS HEART OF EUROPE is probably one of the films she was allowed to do (after her display of excessive hysteria) to make the living (while she was banned to make feature films). It also doesn't have subs (and i was also considering in the past to make them) but i don't like the film much, so... ??
11/ SOMETHING DIFFERENT i watched only recently for the 1963 poll.
12/ THE APPLE GAME i watched very long ago. i would need to rewatch it to elaborate on the plot, but i can still eulogize the setting of this film. Many scenes were shot in Věra's own (newly built) mansion. Her villa is (among local architecture lovers) a well-known house built in 1970-1975 and designed by architect Emil Přikryl (besides designing some other noteworthy buildings, he taught architecture on the local Academy of Arts). If you ever visit Prague and wanna see the place, the address is: Pod Havránkou 22, Troja (district of Prague).
13/ For the current poll i wish to watch at least FRUIT OF PARADISE and EXPULSION FROM PARADISE.
14/ Last but not least, i wholeheartedly recommend the following documentary about Věra (on KG with subs)...
JOURNEY: A PORTRAIT OF VERA CHYTILOVA (Jasmina Bralić-Blažević, 2004)
https://letterboxd.com/film/journey-2004/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2355192/
1/ GREEN STREET, A BAGFUL OF FLEAS, DAISIES i like a lot because of the sumptuous quantity of internal (or external) monologues (eventually "Marie I." speaking to "Marie II."). In general (maybe due to coming-of-age in regime predominated by the double-speak), I am more interested in the inner voices of ppl than their outward communication. GREEN STREET is a short school film (an exercise). I see it as the precursor to A BAGFUL OF FLEAS which is my absolute favorite (among all the Věra's films). I subtitled A BAGFUL OF FLEAS and thus was able to examine it minutely (later, official subtitles emerged). It is (almost) solely an internal monologue of the main heroine. I see it as the precursor to DAISIES.
2/ PREFAB STORY i like due to my general interest in architecture (social housing in this case) and in the absurd. This film offers both. Its ideal double bill would be the short i mentioned during 1963 poll...
3/ SEARCHING FOR ESTER is a documentary about Ester Krumbachová (costume designer & script co-writer of many Czech New Wave films and Věra's friend.) A few days ago i actually recalled Ester while watching OEDIPUS REX (Pier Paolo Pasolini, 1967). Usually, I don't search for names (not to speak of keeping them on my mind) of costume designers of films. But I was so enchanted by costume designs in OEDIPUS REX that I searched who did it. The name is Danilo Donati (1926-2001). So, Ester is another person capable of a substantial contribution to a film via costume. Moreover, she also directed a film. Her single directorial entry is called THE MURDER OF MR. DEVIL (1970).MUD-COVERED CITY (Václav Táborský, 1963)
https://youtu.be/AVNvDsF194s
This explicitly feminist film was not received well (it is somewhat caricaturesque but I don't think it's bad) which proly was the reason Ester gave up trying to direct films and focused on costume design (and alcohol).Comedy with fairy-tale touches, about Kate, who wants to marry, and Mr. Devil, who is not interested in the heart or soul of this passionate and aging lady, but is interested in her good cooking – for Mr. Devil is a glutton.
4/ WOLF'S HOLE i consider Věra's strangest film. i was not yet a fully matured "esoteric wtf movie guy" when i watched it for the first time and thus it was too odd even for me. When i rewatched it later, it doesn't seem that strange anymore. It was still quite long ago, so i would need to rewatch it (again) to be able to go into more details. However, now, checking the local movie database i discovered scenes from this film were used by a band called "Outerspass" for their song called "Frosty". Oddity of this clip might give you an idea of the oddity of the source film (disclaimer: not all the scenes in the clip are scenes from WOLF'S HOLE)...
https://youtu.be/t8TXfuXGwqI
5/ THE JESTER AND THE QUEEN is a playdaptation. Bolek Polívka (jester) is a mime who achieved local fame beyond limits (up to appearing extensively in various popular local tv talk shows and alike)- Chantal Poullain (queen) is his then-wife (nowadays ex-wife). She was one of the very few ppl (born in the West, France) who (prior the fall of the Iron Curtain) opted to live in the East (marrying Easterner). She was not yet very fluent in Czech at that time and thus they made (with a hubby) a stage play about a (imagined) medieval foreign (occupant) queen and her jester (ironical of her power). No wonder it was popular in a Soviet satellite country (it was already perestroika time, the ruling class was already loosing the power and thus it was not banned). Based on the play was made a film. It has no subs, I was considering to subtitle it, but due to jester & queen permanently going from Czech (many times mispronounced by the queen and her mispronunciation ridiculed by jester) to German and to French and back (some sort of a wordplay almost permanently in action), it would be extremely hard to translate it properly (so til now i didn't dare to try but in the future who knows? maybe?).
6/ In the 1980s, Bolek Polívka (jester) became Věra's favorite actor (often cast by her even in 1990s). Besides him (more and more popular among locals and more and more annoying to me), she started to cast repetitively few more actors towards whom i developed aversion and thus i started to avoid Věra's later flicks. TRAPS is the exception of the rule. Despite (mostly) annoying cast, the basic storyline of this film i find noteworthy...
And those testicles are eaten (by mistake) by another (hungry) man!After two troubled but powerful men rape a young hitchhiker who happens to be a vet, she drugs them and removes their testicles.
7/ CALAMITY and THE INHERITANCE OR FUCKOFFGUYSGOODDAY are two examples of films i watched and are starred by (annoying) Bolek & crew.
8/ Věra has two children. Her son is a cinematographer (as his father)- Her daughter is a costume designer and a wife of a local popular actor Tomáš Hanák who is the hero of A HOOF HERE, A HOOF THERE. I watched it in cinema after its release (in 1989) and thus all i can remember is, it was something about the then-trendy topic of AIDS. I would need to rewatch it to go into details.
9/ My memory of THE VERY LATE AFTERNOON OF A FAUN is also blurred. I can only share amusing trivia that an actor who played the main male character of this film was taking tranquilizers to be able to cope with Věra, while shooting this film. i can't tell what specifically made him to be almost permanently on the verge of mental breakdown, but i know Věra liked to speak about her ability to exploit the fear & terror of males exposed to fits of feminine hysteria. She liked to stage such fits (of someone "hysterical in floral dress") to make assaults on the exponents of local then-patriarchate. (Allegedly) she fancied (when she was banned to make films) chasing exponents of the regime (holding by hands her small children) and telling (in front of these big shots) loud to her offsprings, "You see, kids, this MAN is responsible for your mom not being able to work, to make the living, and because of this MAN we are starving!" She also spiced her overplayed fits of hysteria with few suicide threads and, as a result, the MEN in charge of the local culture and cinema production were shit scared of her (permanently hiding from her — to be sparred of the confrontation with the "hysterical woman"). Whenever Věra was telling these stories from the past, she always had her mild mischievous ironical smile.
10/ PRAGUE: THE RESTLESS HEART OF EUROPE is probably one of the films she was allowed to do (after her display of excessive hysteria) to make the living (while she was banned to make feature films). It also doesn't have subs (and i was also considering in the past to make them) but i don't like the film much, so... ??
11/ SOMETHING DIFFERENT i watched only recently for the 1963 poll.
12/ THE APPLE GAME i watched very long ago. i would need to rewatch it to elaborate on the plot, but i can still eulogize the setting of this film. Many scenes were shot in Věra's own (newly built) mansion. Her villa is (among local architecture lovers) a well-known house built in 1970-1975 and designed by architect Emil Přikryl (besides designing some other noteworthy buildings, he taught architecture on the local Academy of Arts). If you ever visit Prague and wanna see the place, the address is: Pod Havránkou 22, Troja (district of Prague).
13/ For the current poll i wish to watch at least FRUIT OF PARADISE and EXPULSION FROM PARADISE.
14/ Last but not least, i wholeheartedly recommend the following documentary about Věra (on KG with subs)...
JOURNEY: A PORTRAIT OF VERA CHYTILOVA (Jasmina Bralić-Blažević, 2004)
https://letterboxd.com/film/journey-2004/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2355192/
Last edited by der kulterer on Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:02 pm, edited 36 times in total.
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oscarwerner
- Posts: 319
- Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:13 am
- Contact:
seen 8. My votes go to:
1. Daisies (Sedmikrásky)-(1966)
2. Fruit of Paradise (1970)
3. Something Different (1963)
4. Panelstory (1980)
1. Daisies (Sedmikrásky)-(1966)
2. Fruit of Paradise (1970)
3. Something Different (1963)
4. Panelstory (1980)
seen 17
fruit of paradise
panelstory
expulsion from paradise
the globe buffet (from pearls of the deep)
ceiling
wolf's hole
a bagful of fleas
traps
the apple game
fruit of paradise
panelstory
expulsion from paradise
the globe buffet (from pearls of the deep)
ceiling
wolf's hole
a bagful of fleas
traps
the apple game
"Most esteemed biographer of Peter Barrington Hutton"
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der kulterer
- Posts: 3126
- Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:30 am
- Location: Prague, Bohemia
an extensive reading about Věra in English...
In Search of Authenticity: Věra Chytilová's Films from Two Eras
https://eprints.gla.ac.uk/161192/7/161192.pdf
Ester (Krumbachová) the cat lover...
(still from SEARCHING FOR ESTER)
Last edited by der kulterer on Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
Seen 4:
1. Daisies
2. Panelstory
1. Daisies
2. Panelstory
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St. Gloede
- Posts: 707
- Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:50 pm
Now this is exciting, I kept trying to push her the last few rounds, yet she never had the numbers - and now she managed without me!
Seen 12 so far (the top two are favourites) :
Faunovo velmi pozdní odpoledne / The Very Late Afternoon of a Faun 1983)
Prefab Soey (1980)
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Kalamita (1982)
Kopytem sem, kopytem tam / A Hoof Here, a Hoof There (1989)
Pasti, pasti, pasticky / Traps (1998)
O necem jiném / Something Different (1963)
Seen 12 so far (the top two are favourites) :
Faunovo velmi pozdní odpoledne / The Very Late Afternoon of a Faun 1983)
Prefab Soey (1980)
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Kalamita (1982)
Kopytem sem, kopytem tam / A Hoof Here, a Hoof There (1989)
Pasti, pasti, pasticky / Traps (1998)
O necem jiném / Something Different (1963)
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der kulterer
- Posts: 3126
- Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:30 am
- Location: Prague, Bohemia
Seems like, I should rewatch it (sooner or later).St. Gloede wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:35 pm Faunovo velmi pozdní odpoledne / The Very Late Afternoon of a Faun 1983)
I watched it very, very, very, very long ago on the local TV and I can barely remember it.
Can you elaborate on what you like about this particular film?
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der kulterer
- Posts: 3126
- Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:30 am
- Location: Prague, Bohemia
btw. Věra also tried to become a politician (under the banner of the ephemeral party called "Party of Equal Opportunities").
I vaguely remember her campaigning in the local media but, for details, I had to check the local wiki which says...
I vaguely remember her campaigning in the local media but, for details, I had to check the local wiki which says...
https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strana_Ro ... 0anc%C3%AD
Strana Rovnost Šancí (Party of Equal Opportunities) was founded in 2005.
It was predominantly a female party.
Main goals: full female emancipation & intergenerational solidarity.
In parliamentary election 2006, the party (with Věra on the list) reached 0,20 % (no MPs).
In the same year (2006), Věra was party's candidate for Senate (in one of Prague's districts). She achieved 4.55 % (and was not elected).
In 2008, the party gave up.
I've only seen Daisies but it wasn't that great so I'm not going to vote for it
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Lencho of the Apes
- Posts: 1881
- Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:38 am
"Male gaze" is used in a very broad, catch-all way these days, often in contexts that are far removed from Laura Mulvey's original set of ideas. According to her formulations, I'm not sure a 'female' gaze' even exists.
The opposite of 'reify' is... ?
Interesting. I am not very familiar with the taxonomy of gaze. But my instincts would lead me to believe that the opposite is true: it's easier to distinguish, define and characterize the non-male gaze than the male gaze.
I'm in the process of formulating my own Theory (I assume this will take decades, but I've actually started putting words to page, so I feel like it's on the go). One thing I'm trying to expatiate is the notion that privileged groups only exist as mental fictions. The privilege of being yt is not membership in a group, but actually a lack of membership in related oppressed groups. There is non-Black privilege and non-Asian privilege and so on, but there is no non-yt privilege. If there were, the people who would benefit would be racialized people. The racialized gaze is thus born from this idea: centring the racialized experience in one's work is An Act. That is the non-yt gaze. The non-male gaze exists similarly.
There can be no male gaze. Men don't actually know what it means to be men. Non-men do because they live the difference between the male and the non-male experience.
I'm in the process of formulating my own Theory (I assume this will take decades, but I've actually started putting words to page, so I feel like it's on the go). One thing I'm trying to expatiate is the notion that privileged groups only exist as mental fictions. The privilege of being yt is not membership in a group, but actually a lack of membership in related oppressed groups. There is non-Black privilege and non-Asian privilege and so on, but there is no non-yt privilege. If there were, the people who would benefit would be racialized people. The racialized gaze is thus born from this idea: centring the racialized experience in one's work is An Act. That is the non-yt gaze. The non-male gaze exists similarly.
There can be no male gaze. Men don't actually know what it means to be men. Non-men do because they live the difference between the male and the non-male experience.
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Lencho of the Apes
- Posts: 1881
- Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:38 am
"White privilege" (or 'privilege' in general) is another concept whose use has spread far beyond what it was originally intended to describe. Good call. My understanding of it has always been that it referred primarily to having the advantage of not being subjected to the oppressions visited on non-white groups.
The opposite of 'reify' is... ?
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der kulterer
- Posts: 3126
- Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:30 am
- Location: Prague, Bohemia
btw. i tried to aggregate (for the intro post of the new "East-Central Europe — Czechia, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia" thread) all the related director polls (held so far).
this is what i found in the archive.
am i missing some name?
B/
SCFZ poll: Walerian Borowczyk ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=395
C/
SCFZ poll: Vera Chytilova ... viewtopic.php?f=5&t=677
F/
SCFZ poll: Milos Forman ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=318
J/
SCFZ poll: Juraj Jakubisko ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=491
SCFZ poll: Miklos Jancso ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=501
P/
SCFZ poll: Roman Polanski ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=500
S/
SCFZ poll: Jerzy Skolimowski ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=523
V/
SCFZ poll: Frantisek Vlacil ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=589
W/
SCFZ poll: Andrzej Wajda ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=556
this is what i found in the archive.
am i missing some name?
B/
SCFZ poll: Walerian Borowczyk ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=395
C/
SCFZ poll: Vera Chytilova ... viewtopic.php?f=5&t=677
F/
SCFZ poll: Milos Forman ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=318
J/
SCFZ poll: Juraj Jakubisko ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=491
SCFZ poll: Miklos Jancso ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=501
P/
SCFZ poll: Roman Polanski ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=500
S/
SCFZ poll: Jerzy Skolimowski ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=523
V/
SCFZ poll: Frantisek Vlacil ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=589
W/
SCFZ poll: Andrzej Wajda ... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=556
Last edited by der kulterer on Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well there's this:
Z/
SCFZ poll: Andrzej Żuławski
And if you really want to be complete, we've done at least a couple who started their careers in Eastern Europe, like Michael Curtiz and Andre DeToth.
I've seen 5 by Vera Chytilová, but the four I've watched besides Daisies all got the same rating, and I don't remember them well enough to differentiate.
1. Daisies
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der kulterer
- Posts: 3126
- Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:30 am
- Location: Prague, Bohemia
thx, Umbugbene!
i will add them all (because Forman, Borowczyk, Polanski didn't stay in the region forever either).
i will add them all (because Forman, Borowczyk, Polanski didn't stay in the region forever either).
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St. Gloede
- Posts: 707
- Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:50 pm
Imagine if Chytilová made Daisies in the 80s (I prefer her style from the 80s and later, but I think most people feel quite differently) but the study/target was a horndog trying to sleep with every woman in sight. Now, that may not be the most accurate description, but it is more or less how I felt watching it. The excitement/play of Daisies, in her slightly toned down tempo, just laying this one character bare in all his pretensions - turning him into a ludicrous, bloated and absurd character/symbol.jiri kino ovalis wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:52 pmSeems like, I should rewatch it (sooner or later).St. Gloede wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:35 pm Faunovo velmi pozdní odpoledne / The Very Late Afternoon of a Faun 1983)
I watched it very, very, very, very long ago on the local TV and I can barely remember it.
Can you elaborate on what you like about this particular film?
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der kulterer
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I can't grasp what made me not watching FRUIT OF PARADISE much sooner.
After FRUIT OF PARADISE (1969) Věra was banned to make movies for 8 yrs (her next movie coming in 1977).
After this gap, she was facing much stronger pressure (than prior to 1969) to make her films swallowable & digestible either for working-class ppl (pre-1989), or paying customers (post-1989).
From FRUIT OF PARADISE (1969) to EXPULSION FROM PARADISE (2001), it is basically a journey from (plain) symbolism to caricature (symbolism covered with caricature), or, in other words, her later symbolism is much more nihilistic.
FRUIT OF PARADISE (1969)
EXPULSION FROM PARADISE (2001), loose adaptation of "Naked Ape" (Desmond Morris, 1967)
additional side note 1:
In relation to THE APPLE GAME and Věra's villa (designed by Emil Přikryl), i forgot to mention Věra initially (for a while) studied architecture (before shifting her interest into filmmaking).
additional side note 2:
Her documentary film FLIGHTS AND FALLS (2000) is about 3 local photographers (Václav Chochola, Karel Ludwig, Zdeněk Tmej).
Karel Ludwig was Věra's first husband.
I believe this doc might be very cool, but i didn't watch it yet (it was/is out of my reach).
After FRUIT OF PARADISE (1969) Věra was banned to make movies for 8 yrs (her next movie coming in 1977).
After this gap, she was facing much stronger pressure (than prior to 1969) to make her films swallowable & digestible either for working-class ppl (pre-1989), or paying customers (post-1989).
From FRUIT OF PARADISE (1969) to EXPULSION FROM PARADISE (2001), it is basically a journey from (plain) symbolism to caricature (symbolism covered with caricature), or, in other words, her later symbolism is much more nihilistic.
FRUIT OF PARADISE (1969)
EXPULSION FROM PARADISE (2001), loose adaptation of "Naked Ape" (Desmond Morris, 1967)
additional side note 1:
In relation to THE APPLE GAME and Věra's villa (designed by Emil Přikryl), i forgot to mention Věra initially (for a while) studied architecture (before shifting her interest into filmmaking).
additional side note 2:
Her documentary film FLIGHTS AND FALLS (2000) is about 3 local photographers (Václav Chochola, Karel Ludwig, Zdeněk Tmej).
Karel Ludwig was Věra's first husband.
I believe this doc might be very cool, but i didn't watch it yet (it was/is out of my reach).
Last edited by der kulterer on Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:09 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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der kulterer
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I am also one of those (the majority) who prefer her oeuvre till FRUIT OF PARADISE and thus i was curious about your reasons for the other (unusual) preference.St. Gloede wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:38 pm (I prefer her style from the 80s and later, but I think most people feel quite differently)
Gonna rewatch THE VERY LATE AFTERNOON OF A FAUN now.
My main objection to Věra's later films comes from my dislike of (certain type of) caricature, brought into her films by specific (male) actors she started to cast and who have leanings to caricature and overplaying not only in her films — but i can imagine she did this on mean, mischievous purpose.
To cover up her symbolism and highlight a certain type of (mostly masculine) stupidity.
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St. Gloede
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I'd say that's a spot on reading and something I enjoyed quite a bit - especially in Hoof and Traps, if we are talking about direct ridicule/caricature - rather than something a bit larger like Faun.jiri kino ovalis wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:48 pmI am also one of those (the majority) who prefer her oeuvre till FRUIT OF PARADISE and thus i was curious about your reasons for the other (unusual) preference.St. Gloede wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:38 pm (I prefer her style from the 80s and later, but I think most people feel quite differently)
Gonna rewatch THE VERY LATE AFTERNOON OF A FAUN now.
My main objection to Věra's later films comes from my dislike of (certain type of) caricature, brought into her films by specific (male) actors she started to cast and who have leanings to caricature and overplaying not only in her films — but i can imagine she did this on mean, mischievous purpose.
To cover up her symbolism and highlight a certain type of (mostly masculine) stupidity.
I do love the trivia of how she set out to make her male lead uneasy and brought him all the way to using sedatives - not that this is necessarily moral behaviour - but it explains so much about the bloated performance and how he almost seem to wither and die as the film progresses.
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der kulterer
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those (above-mentioned) "carriers of caricature" in Věra's later films are basically two-fold:
1/ pranksters from the Prague "cult" theatre called "Cellar"
2/ Bolek & crew (theater comedians from the Moravian city of Brno)
1/ "Cellar" (Sklep) started (in Prague, in 1971) by two teenage boys with the goal to amuse the peers with dadaist-like farcical sketches.
Later it developed into a vastly popular (cult) generational undertaking (local "Monty Pythons").
They are still (somehow or other) active.
Some of the protagonists became professional actors/actresses or filmmakers, but many stayed hobby actors (having another profession).
With these ppl was familiar Věra's daughter (and subsequently got familiar Věra).
Tomáš Hanák (Věra's son-in-law, A HOOF HERE, A HOOF THERE)... https://letterboxd.com/actor/tomas-hanak/
Milan Šteindler... https://letterboxd.com/actor/milan-steindler/
David Vávra (an architect by profession, the guy who eats the testicles in TRAPS)... https://letterboxd.com/actor/david-vavra/
2/ Bolek Polívka & crew come from the theater "Goose on a String" (Husa na provázku) located in the city of Brno.
Post-1989, Bolek became a cultural entrepreneur and founded his own theater (in 1993).
Also in 1993 (when the split of Czechoslovakia culminated), in the atmosphere of heated nationalism, he started to stage on the TV his mockery "King of Wallachia" persona (Wallachia is one of the regions of Moravia, Bolek's home) — a flamboyant, semi-idiotic, feudal, patriarchal figure.
1/ pranksters from the Prague "cult" theatre called "Cellar"
2/ Bolek & crew (theater comedians from the Moravian city of Brno)
1/ "Cellar" (Sklep) started (in Prague, in 1971) by two teenage boys with the goal to amuse the peers with dadaist-like farcical sketches.
Later it developed into a vastly popular (cult) generational undertaking (local "Monty Pythons").
They are still (somehow or other) active.
Some of the protagonists became professional actors/actresses or filmmakers, but many stayed hobby actors (having another profession).
With these ppl was familiar Věra's daughter (and subsequently got familiar Věra).
Tomáš Hanák (Věra's son-in-law, A HOOF HERE, A HOOF THERE)... https://letterboxd.com/actor/tomas-hanak/
Milan Šteindler... https://letterboxd.com/actor/milan-steindler/
David Vávra (an architect by profession, the guy who eats the testicles in TRAPS)... https://letterboxd.com/actor/david-vavra/
2/ Bolek Polívka & crew come from the theater "Goose on a String" (Husa na provázku) located in the city of Brno.
Since 1987 (and throughout the 1990s), his regular prime time TV program "Manéž" (Circus Arena) — series of farcical sketches — became vastly popular.Polívka's work as writer, director and mime artist is inspired by clown comedy, Commedia dell'arte, and early comedy films.
Post-1989, Bolek became a cultural entrepreneur and founded his own theater (in 1993).
Also in 1993 (when the split of Czechoslovakia culminated), in the atmosphere of heated nationalism, he started to stage on the TV his mockery "King of Wallachia" persona (Wallachia is one of the regions of Moravia, Bolek's home) — a flamboyant, semi-idiotic, feudal, patriarchal figure.
It is not the only lawsuit Bolek (the main protagonist of THE INHERITANCE OR FUCKOFFGUYSGOODDAY, the "film director" in EXPULSION FROM PARADISE, the jester in THE JESTER AND THE QUEEN, etc., etc.) was involved in his real life.Polívka was involved in what BBC News described as one of the oddest legal disputes of the Czech Republic's history. In a 1993 TV performance, he had himself crowned as "king" of the fictional Kingdom of Wallachia (named after Moravian Wallachia). In 1997 he began a collaboration with Tomáš Harabiš, who had independently created and officially registered a separate fictional "Wallachian Kingdom", complete with "passports". Polívka, as a well-known actor, became the public face of the "Wallachian Kingdom" as "Wallachian King, Boleslav I the Gracious, Forever", and Harabiš and Polívka's partnership made the "Wallachian Kingdom" one of the most successful tourist attractions in the Czech Republic. Their working relationship continued amicably until 2000, when an acrimonious dispute erupted over legal ownership of the "kingdom", as the kingdom's name had been trademarked by Harabiš. In 2001 Harabiš deposed "King Boleslav", but in 2002 Polívka retaliated with a lawsuit, which accused Harabiš of making unlawful profits from Polívka as "King Boleslav". In 2008 Polívka lost the case.
In sum, Věra was picking for her late movies (for male roles especially) these caricaturesque types — capable of (somewhat overplayed) farcical theater sketches & etudes.Polívka used to organized public events and entertainments at his farm in Olšany near Brno, but in 2013, his company went bust and the farm closed, with creditors suing him for CZK 56 million.
Last edited by der kulterer on Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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St. Gloede
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Interesting trivias, thank you.