jiri kino ovalis wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:45 pmI was not present during country polls but seems to me you polled f.e. "Eastern Europe" and not all the East European countries?
You're right, we didn't poll each country individually. Instead we blanketed the planet by polling whole regions when we felt there weren't enough views for any component countries. We covered Eastern Europe in three polls: ex-Soviet states, the Balkans, and the northern part of non-Soviet Eastern Europe.
I don't know about others, but in the next round I'd be in a much better position than before to make ballots of Polish, Czech, and Hungarian films specifically.
Seems to me there is basically a demand for...
1/ (month?-long) year polls
2/ (week?-long) directors or actors polls (for directors or actors with already enough viewings)
3/ (month?-long) under-seen directors, actors, etc. & country & genre & theme deep-dive polls
jiri kino ovalis wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:45 pm
3/ I was not present during country polls but seems to me you polled f.e. "Eastern Europe" and not all the East European countries? Or am I wrong?
it wasn't exactly like that. we did have a poll called "eastern europe", but it included only films from czech republic, slovakia, poland, and hungary. we also had a soviet/russia poll that included the east europe countries that were part of the former soviet union, and a balkans poll that included the other eastern european countries like slovenia, romania, yugoslavia and former yugoslavia, etc.
we wanted to be sure enough scfzers could post reasonable ballots in most of the polls, and if we had run a slovenia or albania poll, say, it likely would not have been possible for many people to really participate. but we definitely could sometimes have successfully run more granular polls - e.g. it might work to do separate poland, hungary, and czechoslovakia/czechia/slovakia polls, say.
jiri kino ovalis wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:03 pm
What about (besides carrying on with year polls) mimicking the KG system of MoM (replacing "master" for "poll").
Having a thread "PoM suggestions" and out of suggestions (director, actor, cinematographer, genre, country, etc., etc.) to always pick something (one or two or... picks) for next month.
And also occasionally having "PoM redux" for subjects we already polled in the past but we want to investigate again/deeper (like the repetitive horror October).
Am I the only little kid here? Like literally a 3-year-old bairn, freshly weaned off maw's teet?
From 2017 (5 years ago), I've seen 78 movies:
38 of them 3/5 or higher, which is more-or-less my cutoff for voting for a movie for a poll.
3 of them on my top 100; 1 of them on my top 5.
From, say, 1921...... I've seen 3 movies, and I would vote for 1 of them. (Never Weaken!)
...
Obviously, different people have different tastes; some people like/watch old movies way more than new ones, and vice versa. I'm not saying other people should feel the same way as I do, or have the same habits as me. And lots of you have been watching movies for longer than I've been alive (3 years), so of course you'll have had tons of time to watch a million old movies. And so have I, to a tiny extent! I've seen 40 from 1967! ...but then I've also seen 71 from 2017. So yeah, for me, I don't think even 2 years is too recent...
Last edited by Holymanm on Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
twodeadmagpies wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:54 pm
my only problem with polls for recent years is that unless you're on KG seeing enough for a poll is practically impossible. (still waiting for first cow, it must be heaven or another round to become available to anyone in the uk), the restrictive limit is not coming from anyone not wanting to watch recent movies, i'm constantly amazed at how anyone seems able to
Out of curiosity, how do you watch older movies, that they're much more easily available for you...? (And I can put First Cow in the spot if you'd like!)
I definitely support doing the Year Polls again in the same order as we did before. I mean the first years we polled, it feels like ages ago, so I'm sure the final results will be distinctly different.
I also don't think that every #1 pick should make the final list. Maybe increase the points for #1 pick from 2 to, say, 3. And I don't think we should use tiers in Year polls. Every other film should get 1 point.
I like the idea of decade and genre polls as well.
As for cut-off points, I think 5 years is a fair estimate.
Agree that we should link to previous polls, but only use when as a time capsule and inspiration. Maybe some of the old members will show up again for one of these polls.
Holymanm wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:02 pm
Out of curiosity, how do you watch older movies, that they're much more easily available for you...? (And I can put First Cow in the spot if you'd like!)
youtube? amazon? ok.ru & various download sites? some national archives even make their films available (could catch on, that) i try not to download anything that is available for streaming in the uk if someone has gone to the trouble to make it available (which in the uk is practically zilch)
with more recent films i hopefully assume that they will turn up on something like amazon at some point so tend to wait for a couple of years so....will probably give 'another year' a chance to turn up but am gonna throw the towel in on first cow soon as it doesn't look likely (& thanks, i believe i can access that, i just looked, although 'it must be heaven' is out of bounds unless i speak korean - but that irritatingly DOES have a uk distributor, they've just sat on it tho, much good it must be doing them)
i have just never really understood how people that don't access films illegally manage to watch new releases. and so many people do! it's like a secret club i can't figure out the entry to.
Holymanm wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:02 pm
Out of curiosity, how do you watch older movies, that they're much more easily available for you...? (And I can put First Cow in the spot if you'd like!)
i have just never really understood how people that don't access films illegally manage to watch new releases. and so many people do! it's like a secret club i can't figure out the entry to.
Yeah I have no idea well I just got an ad on Prime or whatever to pay $25 (14.25 gbp) to stream the new Wonder Woman on my TV at home.... maybe that's how people are doing it. No thanks!
The bigger the variety of these services that you have (Netflix, Prime, HBO Max, Disney, Crave, .........?), I guess the more stuff might filter in here and there. Mostly mainstream, but some slightly more artsy stuff comes in through the cracks too. Lots more foreign movies these days, though still maybe only 1/20 new foreign release you might want to see... But yeah, if you're open to downloading, an astonishing amount of stuff is available just on mainstream torrent sites (i.e. not private ones like KG) now!
I have 50+ films from all years back to 1920, but that would never have been possible without having solid access to older films - if anything it was recent years I were struggling with - often hitting about 60 films tops until a few years passed. That is quickly changing this year with my new goal to actively seek out new films.
i'm blessed enough to live in a city where anything that gets european distribution will be shown at one point or another, barring covid cinema shutdowns
for everything else, there's resources. pretty sure first cow popped up on the dreaded mubi at some point though?
it is irritating to spend money on streaming services but i definitely spend less per month on streaming than i did when i rented movies from the local shop.
^ and i think i said this before, but really, coordinate and share that streaming! you can share the best netflix subscription among at least four people; probably the same for other services. share with or leech off siblings, aunts and uncles, friends, other scfz members. it's not the hugest financial deal in the world, but if you're paying for four streaming services (madre mía) it can be like $720 a year... get that bill halved or quartered, via splitsies/having different people pay for each service. i use a friend's netflix (and i've used it in different countries, with no problems), and i chip in sometimes, or i would ask if people here want to share one...
twodeadmagpies wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:30 pmwill probably give 'another year' a chance to turn up
Another Year is available on Mubi in Canada and Italy right now (for the next 7 months in Canada). If you get VPN, which is probably $90 or less for a lifetime subscription, you can combine it with a Mubi subscription to access tons of films around the world (check https://whatsonmubi.com/). You might also be able to access the Criterion Channel with VPN, I don't know. Some big streaming sites like Amazon block VPNs.
I'm not liking Bure's idea about beefing up the points at the top of each ballot -- thinking it through, it seems like that would have the effect of boosting the mainstream titles at the expense of more deep-dive ones. Do we really want (f.e.) one person's #1 vote for The Godfather to nullify four other peoples' indifference?
But if it's a popular idea, consensus will rule.
I'll tot up a summary of all the recent discussion... someday soon.
Lencho of the Apes wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:11 am
I'm not liking Bure's idea about beefing up the points at the top of each ballot -- thinking it through, it seems like that would have the effect of boosting the mainstream titles at the expense of more deep-dive ones. Do we really want (f.e.) one person's #1 vote for The Godfather to nullify four other peoples' indifference?
But if it's a popular idea, consensus will rule.
I'll tot up a summary of all the recent discussion... someday soon.
I would've thought it'd be the opposite, no? The Godfather should make a lot of people's 1972 lists because it's a great movie, but it's such an obvious choice that I doubt a lot of us would be putting it right near the top because we all understand that these polls are about exploration and boosting underseen stuff as much as it is about our own favourites. Whereas under the current rules, karl's choice Soviet movie from 1972 only 56 people have seen on Letterboxd and he put 3rd on his list would get as many points as someone just randomly throwing the Coppola a bone. Only way to find out would be to take a sample year and see how the results would've looked with a different system, perhaps as a next python project?
but I'll do 3 random "canon-heavy" yrs to see. i will list the films that received #1 votes
1965
Faster Pussycat Kill Kill x2!!!!!!!
Alphaville
The Family Jewels
Elegia x2!!!!!!
Red Beard
For a Few Dollars More
Yoyo
Chimes at Midnight x2!!!!!!!11
Clay
Sexus
The Coward
Fists in the Pocket
Le bonheur
Guide x3!!!!!!!!!
The Girl and the Mini
The Knack and How to Get it
The Sound of Music
A fugitive from the past
White Mountains
Subarnarekha
The White Lady
Black Wind
And the Fifth Horseman is Fear
I Knew Her Well
The Spy Who came In from the Cold
I Saw What You did
The Debussy Film
A Story Written with Water
The Blizzard
Echoes of Silence
A Spring fot the Thirsty
I for one would be in favor of future polls having no polling at the end and thus be no polls. Instead we have threads were people post their lists of favorites and that's that.
That's how I ran a few (non)polls a few years ago, and I loved it.
All that polling business seems kinda useless to me, when we have all those wonderful individual lists already.
"I too am a child burned by future experiences, fallen back on myself and already suspecting the certainty that in the end only those will prove benevolent who believe in nothing." – Marran Gosov
I tried to tot up everybody's opinions about the questions at hand and it looked like this:
Extend back to 1895 XX
Modern era cut-off
1 year XX
3-4 years X
5 years XX
12 years X
16 years X
Scoring overhaul
#1 gets included XXX
#1-3 get extra points X
Grandfathering in old results/inactive members
YES X
NO X
make the available for reference XX
In favor of extending the polling period XXX
but it wasn't a formal question up for discussion and no-one expressed opposition to the idea.
So I don't guess we have clear consensus on most things, thoxans can resolve it however he sees fit. I'll just run next month's polls and he can start the 2.0 in April. I'll e-mail him some day with some cavils and caveats and stuff.
pabs wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:59 pm
I started my "scfz year polls so far" log for this reason. It would make sense to refer to it for the 2.0 cycle of polls and maybe avoid doing any of the years from the most recent 50 polls that we did. In other words, we should start anew with the first 50 polls we did last time. They can be in random order and not exactly in the same order we did them the first time.
Year polls 1.0
First scfz poll to most recent poll (in the order in which they were conducted) :
jiri kino ovalis wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:03 pm
What about (besides carrying on with year polls) mimicking the KG system of MoM (replacing "master" for "poll").
Having a thread "PoM suggestions" and out of suggestions (director, actor, cinematographer, genre, country, etc., etc.) to always pick something (one or two or... picks) for next month.
And also occasionally having "PoM redux" for subjects we already polled in the past but we want to investigate again/deeper (like the repetitive horror October).
ofc we'll go back to 1895; no reason not to, especially if we're doing it this go 'round; with that being said, the poll for '95 (heh) won't pop up in cycle 2.0 for quite a while, since it's one of the two final polls for cycle 1.0
i've completed a tentative reordering (will tinker, as necessary), which includes 2016-2019, given that cycle 2.0 could last anywhere from ~5-7 years (so, let's just say this next cycle ends in 6 years, in 2027 one of our final polls (if we're not all dead) would be 8 years prior, hence our modern era cutoff; don't ask me how i got there, it's simply how the numbers break down, given the number of decades, the fact that the 1800s polls cover only half-a-decade, limiting closely bunched repetitions of years from the same decade, etc.), depending on the length of each poll (i'm currently sticking with the monthlong format - it's clean, simple, self-evident in its parameters - unless peeps feel passionately about another timeframe), and how often i double up two polls in one month (e.g. the oldest of the old year polls might generally coincide with the newest of the new, giving variety to folks who might feel passionately one way and not the other; but again i'll tinker accordingly)
i'm personally in favor of a scoring overhaul, but there doesn't appear to be a consensus on any one way to do it. further discussion on this point would be helpful tbh. while i'm more than happy to wield my power mightily, i'd prefer more input on the subject, if y'all'd care to chime in. if not, i can decide on my own. as i see it, automatically including each individual ballot's #1 would mean each poll could possibly have ~30-40% of its final results predicated solely on individual #1 picks (take from that what you will). what's more, since #1s are automatically being included no matter what with this system, i would lean towards allotting the #1 vote the same amount of points as every other spot on the ballot. if the #1 vote is already guaranteed a spot on the final list, then giving it additional special powers (such as additional points) would just lead to unintentional vote brigading; and that, class, is how we end up with tragically overlooked and underrated citizen kane winning the 1941 poll. at the same time, the alternative perspective would be that automatically including #1s (while also allotting #1s the same amount of points as every other spot on the ballot) would lead to greater variety in the end results, since i imagine a person might be less inclined to give their #1 spot away to the godfather, if they see that another member has already done so
finally, unless someone explicitly reposts (not links to them, but actually physically reposts) the ballots of former/inactive members in the current ongoing poll thread, i'm not including them. lol. sorry, i can't be digging through old polls on tapatalk (or even here), trying to figure out not only which members are former/inactive, but also which former/inactive members actually deserve to have their ballots included (cuz the dude that popped up those two times, nine months apart, to participate in a couple polls, i ain't including his ballot, and it was a waste of my time to even have to come to that conclusion)
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