SCFZ poll: George Roy Hill

[Holymanm]

I have only seen 2 of his films so far

Not sure which I would necessarily recommend next, but if you already more or less like Hill's style and feel, The Great Waldo Pepper might be a treat. I can't even understand any producers agreeing to fund this movie, or audience members ca. 1975 wanting to go and see it, but it is maybe the most Hill movie of all of them, from my experience.



Hawaii, on the other hand, which I watched last night, was decent and fine and all, but it feels like any contemporaneous director in Hollywood could've made it. Doesn't feel like a Hill flick at all. Sort of like what people say about "Kubrick's" Spartacus I suppose.

Hawaii is also another example (following Period of Adjustment which I watched the other day) of the woke young person crowd shitting on movies for being sexist and colonialist and racist, and overall unacceptable for decent society, when they're "actually" criticising these things. Now, I don't think "but they don't realise that it's actually a satire" is automatically an excuse on its own, if a flick is just crass and distasteful to a fault... but calling Hawaii colonialist? When the entire, right-on-the-nose point of the movie is that colonialism is bad? Am I missing some 26-dimensional chess move here?

[wba]

Hawaii is also another example (following Period of Adjustment which I watched the other day) of the woke young person crowd shitting on movies for being sexist and colonialist and racist, and overall unacceptable for decent society, when they're "actually" criticising these things. Now, I don't think "but they don't realise that it's actually a satire" is automatically an excuse on its own, if a flick is just crass and distasteful to a fault...

Yeah, nowadays people who aren't interested in art and artistry automatically dismiss a lot of artists.
- if the director is (obviously/allegedly) an asshole ("I don't care what he has to say, I'll never watch a movie by Allen/Polanski/Toback/produced by Weinstein/etc.etc.etc.
- if the film doesn't outright and explicitly condemn something, which is usually equated with a protagonist expressing something obvious, which is laughable, cause a character expressing something is always the character expressing something, and it's almost impossible to draw any conclusions from that, other than about that specific character. But that comes from bad books and bad screenplays and such where "the protagonist expresses the directors/artists inner thoughts" or any such bullshit. People really tend to identify with characters on screen...
- if a film merely shows something which they condemn or don't like seeing or even don't like thinking about - when that was one of the things film theorists initially praised about photography and the eye of the camera in the 19th century and first half of the 20th century (think of Bazin), that it can show you things and make you reflect on them just by showing them. Nowadays a documentary might be allowed to do that, but to create a fictional setting for the exact same purpose is seen more and more critically

The satire sentence from me which you quote was meant for people who love or endorse what is depicted in a film, when it is actually not only being criticized but openly satirized. Like showing a clip of Trump doing something stupid, but his fans not getting the satire, cause they think what he said in the clip is great. That's what Kubrick does in Full Metal Jacket imo, just "showing" and depicting the most shameful, awful, dehumanizing aspects of military training and combat (while showing nothing good AT ALL), but people automatically start categorizing and thinking like "this was ok", "this not so much", "this maybe", and just don't get that every single second shown in the film is disgusting, cause it's presented in a "realistic" manner (as life actually IS this horrible). Earlier, with a satire like "Dr. Strangelove" everyone instantly recognized that everything was totally over the top, so this was nowhere as effective in criticizing the military, cause most of the things shown were things almost everyone could disagree with and condemn.

[wba]

PS: You wouldn't believe how many films I have watched, which were devastating and which made me angry and made me cry because of their harsh criticism of things, but other people I spoke with found them offensive, cause they thought those films were endorsing bad stuff or were just cynical about them (because they weren't "showing a way out" or "offering a solution"). My opinion is that most people just aren't that versed in "reading" art or analyzing/deciphering it, or are too lazy to do that and invest that much energy into art, and are thus in the end actually too stupid and ignorant to "get" what the artwork is doing. Those are the people who always want things "explained" to them. But art isn't about explaining things but about analyzing them, truly getting to the core of things, to ACTUALLY understand them. To look the beast in the eye, so to speak, to look into the abyss and see it staring back at you. And to always realize that YOU are part of the problem - and not part of the solution, like people like and tend to think about themselves ("I am the good one, it's always the others who are bad"). Instead, art often shows you that you are part of the problem, and totally on the wrong "side" of life - but people usually don't understand that, and don't like to see that or admit that to themselves.

[thoxans]

my vote goes to:

01. Slap Shot (1977)

thx, wba! you've inspired me to give slap shot a go

[thoxans]

also, just as an aside: i've watched/rewatched the sting just about as many times as any other movie, just pure delight from beginning to end (ala hitchcock's north by northwest). might not be the highest of the high art, but i'll be damned if it's not perfect at what it does. just good fun welldone moviemaking. can't speak to grh's 'auteuristic' vision cuz i haven't seen enough of his films to judge, but from what i've seen he's a more than capable director of really entertaining films. another one of those presently out-of-favor directors whose one-time audience has come and gone, just like a hal ashby or a robert mulligan (though idk if he was ever in-favor...?)

[wba]

my vote goes to:

01. Slap Shot (1977)

thx, wba! you've inspired me to give slap shot a go

great, I hope you'll enjoy it!

[flip]

*seen three

thoxans, you can choose our next director if you like, but i know you had the chance a week ago and declined, so unless you've changed your mind, it will be ralch's turn

Seen 5

[Holymanm]

PS: You wouldn't believe how many films I have watched, which were devastating and which made me angry and made me cry because of their harsh criticism of things, but other people I spoke with found them offensive, cause they thought those films were endorsing bad stuff or were just cynical about them (because they weren't "showing a way out" or "offering a solution"). My opinion is that most people just aren't that versed in "reading" art or analyzing/deciphering it, or are too lazy to do that and invest that much energy into art, and are thus in the end actually too stupid and ignorant to "get" what the artwork is doing. Those are the people who always want things "explained" to them. But art isn't about explaining things but about analyzing them, truly getting to the core of things, to ACTUALLY understand them. To look the beast in the eye, so to speak, to look into the abyss and see it staring back at you. And to always realize that YOU are part of the problem - and not part of the solution, like people like and tend to think about themselves ("I am the good one, it's always the others who are bad"). Instead, art often shows you that you are part of the problem, and totally on the wrong "side" of life - but people usually don't understand that, and don't like to see that or admit that to themselves.

Like people complaining about how Starship Troopers glorifies war and violence and jingoism... or AHX, Neo-Nazism; Fight Club, overrated American cult classics; etc

[ralch]

thoxans, you can choose our next director if you like, but i know you had the chance a week ago and declined, so unless you've changed your mind, it will be ralch's turn

I concede to the next in line, were it my turn.

[flip]

Seen 5

thanks ralch - assuming thoxans doesn't want to pick our director, john you can if you like!

[wba]

PS: You wouldn't believe how many films I have watched, which were devastating and which made me angry and made me cry because of their harsh criticism of things, but other people I spoke with found them offensive, cause they thought those films were endorsing bad stuff or were just cynical about them (because they weren't "showing a way out" or "offering a solution"). My opinion is that most people just aren't that versed in "reading" art or analyzing/deciphering it, or are too lazy to do that and invest that much energy into art, and are thus in the end actually too stupid and ignorant to "get" what the artwork is doing. Those are the people who always want things "explained" to them. But art isn't about explaining things but about analyzing them, truly getting to the core of things, to ACTUALLY understand them. To look the beast in the eye, so to speak, to look into the abyss and see it staring back at you. And to always realize that YOU are part of the problem - and not part of the solution, like people like and tend to think about themselves ("I am the good one, it's always the others who are bad"). Instead, art often shows you that you are part of the problem, and totally on the wrong "side" of life - but people usually don't understand that, and don't like to see that or admit that to themselves.

Like people complaining about how Starship Troopers glorifies war and violence and jingoism... or AHX, Neo-Nazism; Fight Club, overrated American cult classics; etc

Exactly.

would probably be a bit scared while talking to someone who told me "yeah Starship Troopers, that's a cool movie with great people doing great stuff" - but I guess that might actually be the vast majority of people on this planet.

[thoxans]

assuming

whoops! sorry, flip. meant to get back to you. john can have a go. i'll figure out a dir one of these days

[john ryan]

Jane Campion? John Woo if Campion doesn't work?

[oscarwerner]

5 by Jane Campion. 11 by John Woo

[...]

10 Campions
14 Woos

[flip]

looks like john woo definitely works, but if one more person has seen several campion, that will work too - i'll wait til friday to see if we find another campion viewer, and if so, we'll do that poll, and if not, we'll poll john woo

[kanafani]

Got 10 campions

[flip]

thanks kanafani, jane campion will be our next poll!

[Curtis, baby]

Tbh???

Thug champion, young Derek Sanderson
Move keys, tickle piano like Jane Campion

Just tbhing over here

[Holymanm]

the little drummer girl

i am again left hopelessly lost! i watch this and i see an absolute masterclass in movie-making, with every single cast member note-perfect, every scene taut and lean, every location immediate and exact, every subtle little transition or pan so very deft. magnificent! the work of one of the great masters.

.....then i check the reviews, and everyone hates it; almost universal 1/5s; terrible movie; horrible adaptation of a book; bad casting and bad directing. is this the "hill" i want to die on? sweet lebanese jesus, this movie was great; and apparently i do not understand movies at all
4.5/5

[wba]

I'm afraid I can't help:

Campion: 2
Woo: 7

[wba]

the little drummer girl

i am again left hopelessly lost! i watch this and i see an absolute masterclass in movie-making, with every single cast member note-perfect, every scene taut and lean, every location immediate and exact, every subtle little transition or pan so very deft. magnificent! the work of one of the great masters.

.....then i check the reviews, and everyone hates it; almost universal 1/5s; terrible movie; horrible adaptation of a book; bad casting and bad directing. is this the "hill" i want to die on? sweet lebanese jesus, this movie was great; and apparently i do not understand movies at all
4.5/5

The way of the world. I'm looking forward to it (and any and more Hill).

[Holymanm]

The Sting (George Roy Hill, 1973)
The Little Drummer Girl (George Roy Hill, 1984)
The Great Waldo Pepper (George Roy Hill, 1975)
Slaughterhouse-Five (George Roy Hill, 1972)
Slap Shot (George Roy Hill, 1977)
The World of Henry Orient (George Roy Hill, 1964)
A Little Romance (George Roy Hill, 1981)



Seen 14:

The Sting (George Roy Hill, 1973) - 5/5
The Little Drummer Girl (George Roy Hill, 1984) - 4.5/5
The Great Waldo Pepper (George Roy Hill, 1975) - 4.5/5
Slaughterhouse-Five (George Roy Hill, 1972) - 4.5/5
Slap Shot (George Roy Hill, 1977) - 4.5/5
The World of Henry Orient (George Roy Hill, 1964) - 4.5/5
A Little Romance (George Roy Hill, 1981) - 4/5
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (George Roy Hill, 1969) - 4/5
Period of Adjustment (George Roy Hill, 1962) - 4/5
Thoroughly Modern Millie (George Roy Hill, 1967) - 4/5
The World According to Garp (George Roy Hill, 1982) - 4/5
Funny Farm (George Roy Hill, 1988) - 3/5
Hawaii (George Roy Hill, 1966) - 3/5
Toys in the Attic (George Roy Hill, 1963) - 1.5/5

[flip]

hill's first two films (period of adjustment, toys in the attic) got no support, but all of his other films got at least one vote. the winner is no surprise, but second place might be:

results
1. The Sting (1973) — 19.5 pts
2. Slap Shot (1977) — 9 pts
3. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969) — 8 pts
4. Funny Farm (1988) — 7 pts
5. The World of Henry Orient (1964) — 6.5 pts
6. The World According to Garp (1982) — 5 pts
7. A Little Romance (1979) — 4.3 pts
8. The Little Drummer Girl (1984) — 4 pts
8. Slaughterhouse Five (1972) — 4 pts
10. The Great Waldo Pepper (1975) — 3 pts
11. Thoroughly Modern Millie (1967) — 2 pts
12. Hawaii (1966) — 1 pt

[thoxans]

good to see slap shot in second! ended up watching it for the poll, and it was quite good. def blocked a few people on boxd who criticized it for being homophobic and sexist. can't abide silly people incapable of reading between the lines, confusing criticism with glorification. those folks should just stick with disney movies and after school specials

[Holymanm]

def blocked a few people on boxd

[flip]

up at lbox
https://letterboxd.com/fliptrotsky/list ... -poll-247/