4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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St. Gloede
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4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

Post by St. Gloede »

I have always been extremely interested by the fact that even Godard fans seem to act as if he died or laid comatosed from 1968 to 1980, creating nothing of value until Slow Motion. I do think it is quite sad, as I love many of the films from this period, but it is also somewhat bewildering, because if you take 2 or 3 Things I Know About Her, La Chinoise and Weekend and merge them together, you get a pretty good visual of what he was doing in the early 70s, and I don't understand how the love could just stop there, so let's give Jean-Luc Godard's 70s work a bit of a closer look.

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Just to be clear, the move to radical politics and agitation (already present) and later in the decade, video art, does make a bit of a divergence, but when you see what happened in 1968, and can quickly understand why he made the commitments he did, and why he later stepped a little further away. I recently rewatched the following 4, and while all 4 are essay films, and I think essentially every film he made from 1968 and onwards classifies as an essay film, the films really stand out as great works I would think anyone interested in Godard for his play on form, would find a lot of value in:

Tout Va Bien (1972, Jean-Luc Godard & Jean-Pierre Gorin) 8.5 - 8.5
Le vent d'est AKA Wind From the East (1970, Dziga Vertov Group) 9 - 9.5
Numéro deux (1975, Jean- Luc Godard) 8.5 - 8.5
Ici et ailleurs AKA Here and Elsewhere (1976, Jean-Luc Godard, DVG) 8.5-8.5

The interesting thing here is that I had almost the exact same experience as when I saw these films for the first time (likely a decade ago for each). The only difference is that portions hit harder as I have more context of what happened in May 1968 and general political theory, etc. than I had then, and that I ended up taking each of the films more seriously because of this.

Tout Va Bien (1972, Jean-Luc Godard & Jean-Pierre Gorin)

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I think there are two things that are interesting here - especially as they are in contrast:

1. The clarity in contemplation/massaging: Almost all Godards are irreverent, sarcastic and essentially mocking themselves - every line can be taken in so many different ways - nothing is ever "serious". This film caught its breath and allowed for serious introspection.

1.5. It was particularly interesting that it let the boss, the union rep and the workers each state their case with clarity - and focusing exclusively on them while doing so. I.e. almost no "funny business". We assess their words, their motives/interest, their cause, etc. and even more interesting: the dialogue was quite fair - i.e. the boss essentially gives one of the best liberal defenses against socialism (rising living standards, collaboration driving progress, etc.), the union rep gave a very strong case for organizing together and following through on the actual plans - and was allowed to pinpoint the hypocrisy of the "rebels", i.e. never participating in actual union activity, etc. and the workers (albeit shown, sympathetically, to be lacking words of expression/understanding) allowed us to see how dehumanized/alienated they felt, and how tired they were of waiting for improvements - and their frustration at how poorly they could express themselves.

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1.75. It was also interesting to see the dissection of the "intellectuals", who let us be honest, are the most likely to see the film - and how they struggled with their lives, emotions, views and just lacked systematic understanding - the ability to process and even communicate with each other. Jane's comments re: placing their relationship in the context of work is particularly poignant.

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2. The technical/form based experimentation, i.e. dialog not corresponding to what we are shown, faces blocking others, certain conversations being summarised as we see them happen. The detached camera. The high degrees of meta - especially opening/ending and summarizing the creation of "a film" in itself.

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It is very much a Godard film, and the latter showcases what he was doing in the 70s, and even more so in the 80s (with was essentially all form, almost no ideology - at least by comparison) - but where most of Godard's political work in the late 60s and 70s comes off as bizarre experimentation, theatre and surrealism - soaked in essayist material most people just can't relate to - Tout va bien sought to be conventional and approachable enough to work for a larger audience - which of course it also had the ability to do with Montand and Fonda.


Le vent d'est AKA Wind From the East (1970, Dziga Vertov Group)

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Honestly, I loved it just as much as last time. It breaks down all cinematic conventions, to the point that violence is expressed with a bucket of blood, and makes an interesting premise that essentially boils down to narrative/character focused cinema being a product/instrument in upholding the status quo.

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What a sad world it would be if narrative cinema was pushed aside, though I also really wish there were more films like this. It is beautiful, hypnotic and an active debate - including a partial deconstruction. To me this is the ultimate anti-film, making it an absolute must see for all film buffs interested in form.

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My main issues would boil down to the ideology - it pushes the message that you should not simply throw out slogans or read up theory, but apply it, simplify it, evaluate it - but so much of the film, including what comes after, is just this. Which may be intentional, but it is so hard to tell here. I also have to say that the argumentation is quite poor, i.e. the argument against worker autonomy is that the principle is not from Marxism but Anarcho-Syndicalism, and leaves it at that ...

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Again though, a surprise was how much clearer it was politically than I understood it last - and that it is obvious that it has a very specific target group, i.e. young Marxists/students - as opposed to Tout va bien, which has a broader appeal. I also think it is kinda hilarious that after, seemingly, denouncing films with characters and narratives JLG almost immediately made the latter - which while not exactly narrative character driven cinema 101, was certainly far more conventional/traditional than what he had made for a long time.


Numéro deux (1975, Jean- Luc Godard)

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I had completely forgotten the majority of the content. I remembered the family focus, the "there was a factory and we build a landscape around it" (beautiful), but I somehow thought it was far more poetical - I had also forgotten the degree of nudity and sexual content - and that it is described as both a porn and a political film at the beginning. It should tell you a little bit about me/my tastes that my main memory, and still my main focus on this viewing, is its experimentation with form - and not the content/messaging/analysis itself - though they are of course all interconnected.

I am genuinly amazed at the simple tools Godard uses to maintain interest and tension in long narrative sequences. His intro is him standing, face in the dark, - and an identical visual of the TV next to him, with a projector spinning in the opposite direction - and the main sound being the reels spinning. This combination of disjointed sensual experiences are immediately captivating, and the way the elements work together and inform each other is something Godard would continue to develop.

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Staying on tension and presentation, we are often viewing split screens, often not even a split screen but two TVs, in the dark, showing images from the same scene, such as two characters carrying out a conversation. It not only works in that it still contains the narrative, but it adds additonal visual excitement/tension, and more importantly for Godards, separates you from the scene and places you in a position of evaluation - the same is done in split screens, or when scenes are juxtaposed on top of each other - even when there is just one screen we are always at a distance, the action taking place in a TV or a minimized frame within the frame.

(And yes, Numero Deux works quite well with this consistent dual screen video art)

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And that leads us to the content itself, an essay on family, on marriage, on sexual relations, of gender roles, of dominance, of violence, of work - and this comes through in a strikingly nuanced and stark way - where you feel both tenderness and distance, toxicity, etc. The distance and fragmentation allows us to get perspective, while the nudity and sexual elements are also held at bay, and deconstructed to the point that it is almost stripped of erotica.

I would say that the graphic sex, including a blowjob performed of a flaccid penis (and the nudity of the grandparents as well) - has several interesting functions - perhaps leading into the factory vs. landscape debate, where it from scene to scene and sometimes even simultaneously can feel dead and forced, and natural and sensual - and the kind of banality to it, the kind of violent expression and the more natural teaching of sex to their children (which may be disturbing to many) creates such a mix of sensory experiences - especially when coupled with the world around them - which they seem completely distanced from - once again ties in with the complex and uncertain material of the essay itself.

Interesting note: This was his first collaboration with current partner and long time collaborator Anne-Marie Miéville (she is listed as writer and not director/producer, though the film itself implies she's the latter as well).


Ici et ailleurs AKA Here and Elsewhere (1976, Jean-Luc Godard)

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I honestly remembered this as far more sarcastic and humorous, making me quite surprised at just how sombre and heartfelt it actually ended up being. I think Here and Elsewhere cemented how Miéville influenced Godard. We see the start of the kind of experimentation they would engage in over the coming years, but more so it is an assessment of Godard's previous work, and most importantly a look at "Here and Elsewhere", centering the Palestine conflict against the apsthetic French, and exploring, the relationship of media, television, etc.

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It uses footage from a never completed Dziga Vertov Groupe film, where Godard and Gorin travelled to Palestine and documented guerilla fighters - however, the majority were killed by Israeli forces early in filming. The fact that almost all are dead, and Godard's own look at his and Gorin's ethics, gives the film a very real punch, while the essay elements reminds us of how far, yet how near the conflict is.

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Ticking in at just 53 minutes this is one of the shortest full-length films JLG ever did, but it still carries a lot of strength.
Last edited by St. Gloede on Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

Post by brian d »

good stuff, makes me remember when i watched tout va bien for a class. about half of the class missed the part where jane fonda is working on the line making sausage or something during a voiceover montage and is struggling with the machine. i haven't seen the others, but it's probably not too surprising that committed filmmaking doesn't have as much appeal, which has got to be tricky for a committed filmmaker. i guess the question is whether you (not you, but just the general you) find these a call to action on a personal level, or more enjoyable as thought experiments of some sort, which would place you back there with fonda/montand in tout va bien.
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

Post by Umbugbene »

I'd love to see more posts like this! I don't have much to add... I wrote my master's thesis on Godard's films from 1965-1967, but I've only seen the films from his middle period once or twice each.

My impression is that while Godard usually overflows with ideas, his collaborators make a bigger difference than they get credit for: specifically Raoul Coutard in the early period, Jean-Pierre Gorin in the middle, and Anne-Marie Miéville in the much longer "late" period. I can't prove it, but there are pronounced differences between these three phases. Coutard knew how to visualize Godard's ideas in a way that's missing from the later films, which is one reason they reached a wider audience.

Tout va bien stands out for me as the best from this period. That supermarket scene is kind of brilliant.
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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brian d wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:06 pm good stuff, makes me remember when i watched tout va bien for a class. about half of the class missed the part where jane fonda is working on the line making sausage or something during a voiceover montage and is struggling with the machine.
I assume they noticed Montand pushing the teat though, so odd they did not make the connection that Fonda was likely in the montage too.
i haven't seen the others, but it's probably not too surprising that committed filmmaking doesn't have as much appeal, which has got to be tricky for a committed filmmaker. i guess the question is whether you (not you, but just the general you) find these a call to action on a personal level, or more enjoyable as thought experiments of some sort, which would place you back there with fonda/montand in tout va bien.
I think the issue, and perhaps the realization for Godard is that the answer could be neither.

I think a large portion of Godard's actual audience (the once that stuck with him to present day) first and foremost come to him for his experimentation on form, and don't pay attention to the politics, or even "forgive" the politics - perhaps finding a lot of interest in his sarcasm and humour (and Tout va bien has a lot of it, including the supermarket scene) and view the politics as largely arbitrary. I certainly didn't feel the call to action the first time I saw Tout va bien, I was viewing it at a far too distanced meta level.

I had a conversation on Numero Deux recently, and a friend of mine described it as a capitulation, i.e. Godard realizing he was not an effective political filmmaker and that his true calling is form, which may even be partially true.

That said, I think Tout va Bien, especially now with added political and historical context does manage to push the call to action in a way that general audiences favorable to '68or involved with strikes, etc. would open their mind or consider the premises put forth. I think the primary issue is that Godard will always reach the extended group of what is usually called "French intellectual" rather than low wage workers, but here I do actually think that, at the very least, the showcase of the French intellectuals in the film will make them, at the very least, reflect and reassess their actual commitments.

For the Dziga Vertov Films I was very impressed to lean that the group actually toured with the films, showing them to unions, students and political movements, and the target audience were quite clearly people who already broadly agreed with them - and as such I think they likely worked far, far better - while an average cinephile will likely be quite lost/perplexed/infuriated regarding the politics in question.
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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Umbugbene wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:49 pm I'd love to see more posts like this! I don't have much to add... I wrote my master's thesis on Godard's films from 1965-1967, but I've only seen the films from his middle period once or twice each.

My impression is that while Godard usually overflows with ideas, his collaborators make a bigger difference than they get credit for: specifically Raoul Coutard in the early period, Jean-Pierre Gorin in the middle, and Anne-Marie Miéville in the much longer "late" period. I can't prove it, but there are pronounced differences between these three phases. Coutard knew how to visualize Godard's ideas in a way that's missing from the later films, which is one reason they reached a wider audience.

Tout va bien stands out for me as the best from this period. That supermarket scene is kind of brilliant.
I don't know enough about Godard's relationship with Raoul Coutard unfortunately, did you dive into this dynamic in your thesis?

In terms of the latter two I would be inclined to disagree on Gorin, but strongly agree on Miéville. I say this because if we look at the projection of Godard's career up until Gorin it is really easy to see the films, even most of the DVG films, as a natural progression - and when there is a voice, reflection, etc. it is usually clear that it is JLG - which is quite ironic given the DVG's general view of art as collaborative. However, when Godard and Miéville started their production company, Sonimage, everything changed. It was here we saw him delve into video art, play on projection and light, etc. Godard is even on record as saying Miéville had this fascination before him - and more and more we started hearing her voice as equal to that of Godard (if not, possible, superior). If we look at Numero Deux (which she is not credited as a director of, though some sources claim she is) you can see how completely the tone and focus has changed. The most obvious perhaps being the nature of the politics, i.e. we are looking at personal politics of the marital home - but beyond style there is also a shift in presentation from brass sarcasm, and a nature where almost everything can be seen as ironic, to a far more serious and contemplative study, that still manages to have open interpretations, but without the snark (or at least with decreased snark).

I still haven't seen any of Miéville's sole features, but after this I really want to!

I also think it is really interesting, if not ironic, that Godard, who more than almost anyone championed the auteur theory (and is easily one of the first names many think of when they hear the term) would be defined almost exclusively by his collaborations in the late 60s and 70s. I think there is only one film in the entire 70s (the forgettable 1 PM) that was not a collaboration, and of course, with DVG he was often not even credited.

Re: Supermarket scene - I love it so much! Especially the moderate from the Communist Party selling his book at a discount, and the repetition, repetition, repetition, certainly one of the most effective, and cinematicaly brilliant scenes Godard ever did.
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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Do you happen to know precisely when it was that Godard championed the auteur theory? Truffaut is the director/critic most strongly associated with it, along with Andrew Sarris who picked up the torch stateside. Godard allied himself with Truffaut in the early years of the Nouvelle Vague, but maybe you saw in my Bande à part analysis a few months ago that I'm convinced he identified Truffaut with Claude Brasseur's character Arthur to poke fun at his estranged friend (in French "Arthur" and "auteur" sound even closer than they do in English). So by 1964 he was already separating himself from Truffaut's simplistic hero-worship.

I didn't go into the relationship with Coutard in my thesis - that came later, and it's still speculative, although I find it fascinating. Coutard shot 14 of Godard's first 15 features (Masculin féminin the exception), plus Passion and Prénom Carmen years later, and they had a fairly intense improvisational working style... I find it impossible that Coutard wouldn't have made a major contribution to his early films beyond the basics of lighting and framing.
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

Post by St. Gloede »

Umbugbene wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:55 am Do you happen to know precisely when it was that Godard championed the auteur theory? Truffaut is the director/critic most strongly associated with it, along with Andrew Sarris who picked up the torch stateside. Godard allied himself with Truffaut in the early years of the Nouvelle Vague, but maybe you saw in my Bande à part analysis a few months ago that I'm convinced he identified Truffaut with Claude Brasseur's character Arthur to poke fun at his estranged friend (in French "Arthur" and "auteur" sound even closer than they do in English). So by 1964 he was already separating himself from Truffaut's simplistic hero-worship.
I missed your Bande à part analysis, I need to look that up, and really looking forward to reading it.

That is also a really interesting question. I have not read any of the original pieces from Cahiers du cinema, do you know if there is a collection of translations of the essays? It would be interesting if all the history and lecture books (and online sources) list JLG as a proponent of the auteur theory merely by association. That would even be quite a scoop.
I didn't go into the relationship with Coutard in my thesis - that came later, and it's still speculative, although I find it fascinating. Coutard shot 14 of Godard's first 15 features (Masculin féminin the exception), plus Passion and Prénom Carmen years later, and they had a fairly intense improvisational working style... I find it impossible that Coutard wouldn't have made a major contribution to his early films beyond the basics of lighting and framing.
I think the cinematographers always adds in far more than the basics of lightning and framing, just look at Rohmer's Comedies and proverbs for instance and the extreme shifts in atmosphere and mood from Pauline at the Beach (with long-time collaborator Néstor Almendros) to Full Moon in Paris (Renato Berta) to The Green Ray (first-time cinematographer Sophie Maintigneux) directly driven by the visuals. At the same time, you can always tell a Rohmer film (and Rohmer was obsessed with the auteur theory to the extent that he would choose not to make certain choices as it would conflict with the auteur profile he had built for himself) but, at least to me, Pauline is the one film in the series most reminiscent of the Moral Tales (the last 4 were done with Almendros). Other times a director could even be theorized to be carried by their cinematographers. Just look at Melville when he found himself without Henri Decaë on Deux hommes dans Manhattan for instance. Night and day. I think it is hard to say how much impact Coutard actually had, but he was an incredible cinematographer, and he certainly affected the films quite a bit, even though, just as with Rohmer, you can see very similar ideas in films he was not the cinematographer for - and the question they may also be how much Godard learnt from Coutard. It is not necessarily a pressing topic, but I would love to read more about their relationship and how they work together, as they created many of my all-time favourite films.
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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St. Gloede wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:13 amI missed your Bande à part analysis, I need to look that up, and really looking forward to reading it.
Here it is: https://scfzforum.org/phpBB3/viewtopic. ... &start=810

You might also be interested in my Alphaville review, which I think opens a few doors into Godard's films. The way I see it he (and possibly Coutard) are making films about nothing less than the way people think.

I wish I had better access to libraries right now to look up the Cahiers translations.
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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good post, sg! and now i know where your avatar comes from
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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Umbugbene wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:27 am
St. Gloede wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:13 amI missed your Bande à part analysis, I need to look that up, and really looking forward to reading it.
Here it is: https://scfzforum.org/phpBB3/viewtopic. ... &start=810

I wish I had better access to libraries right now to look up the Cahiers translations.
That was a really enjoyable read, and a 100% believable reading I'll take as canon from now on. :clap:

And yes, me too.
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

Post by Umbugbene »

Thank you :hearteyes: And you've inspired me to take a closer look at Godard's 1970s work.
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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sorry i have nothing to add, but i woke up at 4am last night and spent the next 3 hours thinking about this thread. no conclusions but thank god for miéville (and i love godard like a god)
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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twodeadmagpies wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:11 pm sorry i have nothing to add, but i woke up at 4am last night and spent the next 3 hours thinking about this thread. no conclusions but thank god for miéville (and i love godard like a god)
I would never have expected a thread like this to have that kind of impact. That's pretty incredible!

(and yes, thank god for Miéville - though I would not have minded a few more JLG/Gorin/DVG collaborations)
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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Umbugbene wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:27 am
I wish I had better access to libraries right now to look up the Cahiers translations.
Have you seen/read this: https://monoskop.org/images/2/20/Cahier ... w_Wave.pdf

It is an edited down set of highlights from the 50s. Not started reading yet but I saw a section specified as "auteurs" with writings from Rohmer, Rivette, Chabrol and Moullet (poor Moullet, still alive, but almost everyone forgets he was a part of the new wave).

Looking forward to sinking my teeth into it.
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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St. Gloede wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:54 pmHave you seen/read this: https://monoskop.org/images/2/20/Cahier ... w_Wave.pdf
Thanks, I hadn't seen these essays since grad school. I respect most of the Cahiers guys as filmmakers, but looking back at this I'm struck by how impetuous and ungrounded their criticism is. Don't expect too many close readings. In their defense it's not easy to write thorough criticism of films seen once or twice in a cinema. I find it lamentable that the age of the dvd hasn't led critics to step up their game - after all they have every opportunity now to scour films for details and patterns that cinemagoers usually miss, things which might work on the audience subliminally, or which reveal how a movie works.
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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moullet gets underrated for a lot of reasons, certainly because his films weren't really part of the new wave at all, but also like varda because they are all small films, short films, essays, toss offs, even the masterpieces like alcazar seem like nothing at a glance. but i do think he might be the best critic of the group, or at least sometimes think so. btw if anyone has missed it a bunch of great translations going on here - https://theseventhart.info/tag/luc-moullet/
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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nrh wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:34 am moullet gets underrated for a lot of reasons, certainly because his films weren't really part of the new wave at all, but also like varda because they are all small films, short films, essays, toss offs, even the masterpieces like alcazar seem like nothing at a glance. but i do think he might be the best critic of the group, or at least sometimes think so. btw if anyone has missed it a bunch of great translations going on here - https://theseventhart.info/tag/luc-moullet/
He did make two features at the tail-end of the new wave (Brigitte et Brigitte, Les Contrebandières), but yes, he was obviously not part of establishing their notoriety and respect - but he is better than the other forgotten new wavers, like Pollet and Kast. I don't think he is anywhere near the key members in quality, though Alcazar is great, and I agree with your general diagnosis in terms of why so little attention is placed on his work.

Tall praise for him as a critic, looking forward to reading some of the translations of his work.
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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Umbugbene wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:15 am
St. Gloede wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:54 pmHave you seen/read this: https://monoskop.org/images/2/20/Cahier ... w_Wave.pdf
Thanks, I hadn't seen these essays since grad school. I respect most of the Cahiers guys as filmmakers, but looking back at this I'm struck by how impetuous and ungrounded their criticism is. Don't expect too many close readings. In their defense it's not easy to write thorough criticism of films seen once or twice in a cinema. I find it lamentable that the age of the dvd hasn't led critics to step up their game - after all they have every opportunity now to scour films for details and patterns that cinemagoers usually miss, things which might work on the audience subliminally, or which reveal how a movie works.
I wouldn't defend them to that extent. A good critic should be able to have a lot to say even after just one viewing - and yes, I am expecting a lot of brass claims and hot takes, with little interest in backing them up (which is already the modus operandi of so many of JLGs film essays).
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Re: 4 JLG Rewatches From the Decade "Everyone" Hates

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Umbugbene wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:15 am Thanks, I hadn't seen these essays since grad school. I respect most of the Cahiers guys as filmmakers, but looking back at this I'm struck by how impetuous and ungrounded their criticism is.
I remember reading their conversation about Hiroshima, Mon Amour and Godard saying something like "this is the first truly modern film because it is the only film I've seen without cinematic references." Which was such a bizarre statement to just throw off like that. It's a fun thing to say in a casual conversation, but really doesn't hold up to any sort of scrutiny at all. Especially if you've just recently watched the film, and have an immediate flashback to the bar that Riva and her lover find themselves in near the end of the film...
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But their criticism did function as passionate and (often) intellectually stimulating conversations about film in general which really does work as a sort of critical lubricant when you're in the early days of trying to think seriously about the medium.
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