Polling the films of director Helmut Kautner
The rules:
- your list can include no more than half of the Kautner films you've seen, up to a maximum of 5. So if you've seen seven of his films, for example, you can list only a top 3. It's only if you've seen ten or more of his films than you can list the maximum of five.
- i'll assume ballots are ranked unless you tell me otherwise. unranked ballots are fine.
- deadline for ballots: next Tuesday, in seven days, whatever day that is
- if anyone is watching films for these polls, then i'll extend the deadline up to three days, if someone requests an extension
- next poll: whoever posts the first ballot in this thread is free to nominate the director we poll next, unless you've nominated in this round already (everyone should get a chance). Already nominated this round: greg x, wba, greennui, umbugbene, ofrene, mesnalty, john ryan, silga, mrcarmady, evelyn, nrh, roscoe, brian d, rischka
umbugbene created an index on letterboxd of all of our previous polls here: letterboxd.com/umbugbene/list/index-of-all-scfz-director-polls/
one rule for nominees: at least 3 scfzers need to have seen 10+ of a nominee's films, or at least 4 scfzers need to have seen at least 8 of the nom's films, so if it isn't clear if that will be the case, we'll confirm that's true before moving forward
if 24 hours pass after a poll opens, and no one eligible to nominate has posted a ballot, then i'll nominate someone, and then we'll start over, and everyone will be able to nominate again
SCFZ poll: Helmut Kautner
we'll use the extended rules for this:
- if you have seen an odd number of kautner films, you can round up instead of down when determining how many films you can vote for (so if you have seen 7, you can vote for 4 instead of the usual three)
- if you have seen more than 10 kautner, your ballot can extend past five films. so if you have seen 13, say, you can vote for up to 7 films. longer ballots will help ensure we can reach a top ten (6th, 7th and 8th place films get 0.5, 0.3 and 0.1 points respectively)
if you can vote for the maximum number of films allowed (unless you don't think that many films deserve a vote), that will help get us to a complete top ten
- if you have seen an odd number of kautner films, you can round up instead of down when determining how many films you can vote for (so if you have seen 7, you can vote for 4 instead of the usual three)
- if you have seen more than 10 kautner, your ballot can extend past five films. so if you have seen 13, say, you can vote for up to 7 films. longer ballots will help ensure we can reach a top ten (6th, 7th and 8th place films get 0.5, 0.3 and 0.1 points respectively)
if you can vote for the maximum number of films allowed (unless you don't think that many films deserve a vote), that will help get us to a complete top ten
Seen 2, will add more.
Unter den Brücken
Unter den Brücken
01. Monpti (1957)
02. The Girl from Flanders (1956)
03. Portrait of an Unknown Woman (1954)
04. Frau nach Maß (1940)
05. We Make Music (1942)
06. Duel in the Forest (1958)
Käutner seen: 12
02. The Girl from Flanders (1956)
03. Portrait of an Unknown Woman (1954)
04. Frau nach Maß (1940)
05. We Make Music (1942)
06. Duel in the Forest (1958)
Käutner seen: 12
"I too am a child burned by future experiences, fallen back on myself and already suspecting the certainty that in the end only those will prove benevolent who believe in nothing." – Marran Gosov
just 3
die große freiheit nr. 7
unter den brücken
die große freiheit nr. 7
unter den brücken
"Most esteemed biographer of Peter Barrington Hutton"
Seen five. Ought to see more, but so little time, innit?
1. Romanze in Moll
2. The Restless Years
3. Unter den Brücken
1. Romanze in Moll
2. The Restless Years
3. Unter den Brücken
Have a look at all the picnics of the intellect: These conceptions! These discoveries! Perspectives! Subtleties! Publications! Congresses! Discussions! Institutes! Universities! Yet: one senses nothing but stupidity. - Gombrowicz, Diary
9.
Great Freedom No. 7
Romance in a Minor Key
Under the Bridges
The Original Sin
Great Freedom No. 7
Romance in a Minor Key
Under the Bridges
The Original Sin
Last edited by greennui on Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Great Freedom No. 7
Romance in a Minor Key
Under the Bridges
Romance in a Minor Key
Under the Bridges
I don't know who this man is, but if I did, and I'd seen at least 1 of his movies and liked it, I would vote for it
-
St. Gloede
- Posts: 712
- Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:50 pm
Seen 13:
In jenen Tagen
Romanze in Moll
Wir machen Musik
The Devil's General
Himmel ohne Sterne / Sky Without Stars
Unter den Brücken
Grosse Freiheit Nr. 7
In jenen Tagen
Romanze in Moll
Wir machen Musik
The Devil's General
Himmel ohne Sterne / Sky Without Stars
Unter den Brücken
Grosse Freiheit Nr. 7
Wajda, finally.
Have a look at all the picnics of the intellect: These conceptions! These discoveries! Perspectives! Subtleties! Publications! Congresses! Discussions! Institutes! Universities! Yet: one senses nothing but stupidity. - Gombrowicz, Diary
Would love an extension until Friday if possible, got 1 or 2 to watch still.
yeah i got life things to do anyway, so was planning to tally this on friday and start the next poll then anyway, so no problem!
Damn, I haven't been able to watch more this week but based on the two I had already seen, and In jenen Tagen, which I just finished, Käutner is seriously major. Looking forward to exploring more based on the results of the poll.
In jenen Tagen
Unter den Brücken
rischka, just read your LB review and I see what you're getting at with the 'blameless character' comment but (a) the film sets out to prove that even in the darkest time in modern history, there were still good people, so that makes sense; (b) three of the stories are about Jewish people, and two are about 'the resistance' which gets brutally put down, so it's history as told through the eyes of the victims, not sure how a story about a committed Nazi would fit into that; (c) the lieutenant in the army segment is a 'bad guy' in the eyes of a Hollywood film depicting that same story, surely, even if he lights his new friend's cigarette and then tries to comfort him after he's been shot, so not sure he fits into your thesis either. I really loved it.
it was the last one. the joseph and mary thing. kautner is major and i love him. he worked under the nazi regime and made films that could have been made anywhere and that's marvelous. but don't make apologies for them. it really rubbed me the wrong way. it's still a wonderfully made film. there are people who won't watch films made under the nazis at all and i respect that too. anyways watch romanze in moll. it rivals ophuls. kautner was as talented a director as any that fled to hollywood imo (well maybe not sirk but the rest of them). it's a crime he isn't more appreciated. i haven't seen a bad one yet
The Joseph and Mary allegory is pretty cheesy and on-the-nose but how is it him making apologies for the Nazis? That one guy at the end who shoots in the air? I guess so but I didn't read it as that. And I will definitely watch Romanze in Moll and I'm also very curious about The Restless Years.rischka wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:14 pm it was the last one. the joseph and mary thing. kautner is major and i love him. he worked under the nazi regime and made films that could have been made anywhere and that's marvelous. but don't make apologies for them. it really rubbed me the wrong way. there are people who won't watch films made under the nazis at all and i respect that too. anyways watch romanze in moll. it rivals ophuls. kautner was as talented a director as any that fled to hollywood imo (well maybe not sirk but the rest of them). it's a crime he isn't more appreciated
maybe it just got my german blood up. it's different for everyone i suppose. but it's like, look at all these germans who aren't nazis. this was directly after the war. there was a lot of work to be done before comparing oneself to mary & joseph. many people weren't nazis but they stayed quiet and went along while others died. somewhat similar current situation here. i can be wrong but i had an emotional response that wasn't good
Yeah I now see what you mean. I think there's two interesting questions to be asked here and the movie certainly hints at one. First of all, how can such great evil occur? And secondly, how did Germany go from being the aggressor in two world wars and committing genocide to being one of the most peaceful and most highly developed nations on earth in half a century? Obviously this isn't the question that the movie is asking but it's one that's interesting to me personally, as I'm Jewish, was born in Germany, am here currently and am a big of their national football team. Käutner's answer to the first one, particularly exemplified in the first story but certainly present in the second and third, is that this can only happen gradually, like the apocryphal boiling frog, and that it doesn't need most people to be evil, just self-absorbed enough to scratch a very pro-Nazi date into their windshield stating 'this is the happiest day of my life' without being Nazis, just vaguely aware of who Hitler is. You may think that's an excuse, I think it's a plausible explanation and it's not like it paints the characters in question in a particularly positive light. As for the second question, Käutner's humanism answers that one as well, even or maybe especially with his clumsy Christian allegories. There are good people around and given the right conditions they can thrive. Germany died so that Germany could be re-born.
The Last Bridge
The only film directed by Kautner that I've seen, but it is one of my favorites. I can't watch it now, but I will try to keep Monpti in mind as one to get to soon.
The only film directed by Kautner that I've seen, but it is one of my favorites. I can't watch it now, but I will try to keep Monpti in mind as one to get to soon.
i had been under the impression that under the bridges was kautner's best-known film (any impression i have of kautner is from conversations here at scfz), but that film did not win our poll:
results
1. Romance in a Minor Key (1943) -- 12 pts
2. Great Freedom No. 7 (1944) -- 9.3 pts
3. In Those Days (1947) -- 7 pts
4. Under the Bridges (1946) -- 6.5 pts
5. Monpti (1957) -- 6 pts
6. We Make Music (1942) -- 4 pts
6. The Girl from Flanders (1956) -- 4 pts
8. Portrait of an Unknown Woman (1954) -- 3 pts
9. Frau nach Maß (1940) -- 2 pts
9. The Devil's General (1957) -- 2 pts
9. The Restless Years (1958) -- 2 pts
12. Sky Without Stars (1955) -- 1 pt
12. The Last Bridge (1954) -- 1 pt
12. The Original Sin (1948) -- 1 pt
15. Duel in the Forest (1958) -- 0.5 pts
results
1. Romance in a Minor Key (1943) -- 12 pts
2. Great Freedom No. 7 (1944) -- 9.3 pts
3. In Those Days (1947) -- 7 pts
4. Under the Bridges (1946) -- 6.5 pts
5. Monpti (1957) -- 6 pts
6. We Make Music (1942) -- 4 pts
6. The Girl from Flanders (1956) -- 4 pts
8. Portrait of an Unknown Woman (1954) -- 3 pts
9. Frau nach Maß (1940) -- 2 pts
9. The Devil's General (1957) -- 2 pts
9. The Restless Years (1958) -- 2 pts
12. Sky Without Stars (1955) -- 1 pt
12. The Last Bridge (1954) -- 1 pt
12. The Original Sin (1948) -- 1 pt
15. Duel in the Forest (1958) -- 0.5 pts
Yes, UNDER THE BRIDGES absolutely and definitely is his best-known and most beloved film, flip. In Germany and also the rest of the world.
The only other two films with a reputation (in Germany and the rest of the world as well) are ROMANCE IN A MINOR KEY and GREAT FREEDOM NO. 7.
His other work is mostly Terra incognita.
EDIT: These 3 films are also the only three films - as far as I know - which have a definite non-German, "international", sometimes even French vibe to them (as rischka said, Romance could have easily been made by Ophüls) and could have taken place somewhere else than in Germany - it's a bit like Käutner wanted to escape the realities of the war during 1943 to 1945 and created his own "fantasy world" in his films. After 1945 Käutner was mainly influenced by US cinema and also found more firmly his own, unique style during the 1950s, where he didn't 'copy' other international tendencies of cinema as blatantly as for example in his last three films made in Nazi Germany, and turned the material and any possible influences very much into something else. A few of his films from the late 50s untill SCHWARZER KIES (1961) clearly show a huge influence from the US, though (especially from film noir) after he came back to West Germany in 1959 from working for Douglas Sirk's producer at Universal (where he completed 2 US-features). They are totally shot like American productions, and must have irritated the hell out of European (or specifically German) viewers at the time. And his last significant cinema feature from 1962, DIE ROTE, is very much influenced by Antonioni.
The only other two films with a reputation (in Germany and the rest of the world as well) are ROMANCE IN A MINOR KEY and GREAT FREEDOM NO. 7.
His other work is mostly Terra incognita.
EDIT: These 3 films are also the only three films - as far as I know - which have a definite non-German, "international", sometimes even French vibe to them (as rischka said, Romance could have easily been made by Ophüls) and could have taken place somewhere else than in Germany - it's a bit like Käutner wanted to escape the realities of the war during 1943 to 1945 and created his own "fantasy world" in his films. After 1945 Käutner was mainly influenced by US cinema and also found more firmly his own, unique style during the 1950s, where he didn't 'copy' other international tendencies of cinema as blatantly as for example in his last three films made in Nazi Germany, and turned the material and any possible influences very much into something else. A few of his films from the late 50s untill SCHWARZER KIES (1961) clearly show a huge influence from the US, though (especially from film noir) after he came back to West Germany in 1959 from working for Douglas Sirk's producer at Universal (where he completed 2 US-features). They are totally shot like American productions, and must have irritated the hell out of European (or specifically German) viewers at the time. And his last significant cinema feature from 1962, DIE ROTE, is very much influenced by Antonioni.
Last edited by wba on Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"I too am a child burned by future experiences, fallen back on myself and already suspecting the certainty that in the end only those will prove benevolent who believe in nothing." – Marran Gosov
credit where it's due : under the bridges was one of angel's unsung darlings which is how i discovered it back in mubi days. didn't know kautner at all
It might sound too obvious to say that Monpti has a French vibe, as it's set in Paris, but its tone and its narrator both reminded me of Guitry. I also caught the French vibe you mentioned in Große Freiheit Nr. 7 (the only other Käutner I watched), so I started to think Käutner had a Gallic disposition.
Anyway I'm glad I got to watch a couple Käutners finally... I'd been curious about him for a long time, and I liked both. There are still two or three SCFZ darlings I've never sampled, including Monteiro and Demirkubuz.
I probably would have liked Montpi a lot more without Horst Buchholz, I find his jittery screen presence rather tiresome.
it also doesn't help that his name was horst buchholz
Yeah, he had a somewhat gallic disposition (that's why he made those french-like films), but Monpti is very much a typical West German film of the 1950s.Umbugbene wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:13 pmIt might sound too obvious to say that Monpti has a French vibe, as it's set in Paris, but its tone and its narrator both reminded me of Guitry. I also caught the French vibe you mentioned in Große Freiheit Nr. 7 (the only other Käutner I watched), so I started to think Käutner had a Gallic disposition.
Nice connection to Guitry, though.
"I too am a child burned by future experiences, fallen back on myself and already suspecting the certainty that in the end only those will prove benevolent who believe in nothing." – Marran Gosov
Can't stand Buchholz either, but that doesn't matter in Monpti, cause Käutner.
"I too am a child burned by future experiences, fallen back on myself and already suspecting the certainty that in the end only those will prove benevolent who believe in nothing." – Marran Gosov