SCFZ poll: Roman Polanski

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

Rape and its consequences along with paranoia of accusation are constantly reoccurring in Polanski's work, dwelled on over and over again with such attention paid to the methods of victimization and dotingly detailed observation of its victims that calling his films masochistic, as some do, doesn't quite do justice the obsessive investment in creating these scenes over and over again. "Rape", in various forms, is Polanski's defining theme and there isn't any director who captures it as totally as he does. Both a perpetrator and victim, rape will also be his defining artistic legacy.

While I strongly agree with this observation, for me this is not a virtue at all. He's a serial rapist, and my take would be that his films reflect what he's interested in, which is raping people and deriving sadistic pleasure from the impact it has on his victims. To my mind, rape isn't his artistic legacy, it's always and only his traumatic legacy on his victims, and his highly visible and successful films about rape and about false accusations of rape, lauded as sensitive and artistic (and even perhaps a price worth paying for not having him brought to justice), are part of that attack on his victims. The most obvious example would be making Tess, a movie about a 17-year-old Nastassja Kinski victimized by rape, as his first film as a fugitive from conviction for rape.

Incidentally, I'm not seeing anything that reports that Polanski was a victim of rape, but I would be interested to know if he was. I do certainly know that he had an awful, traumatic childhood as a Polish Jew under Nazi occupation.

[...]

Not claimed as a virtue, just his history. He may not have been a victim of rape per se, but the informing history of victimization is much the same and colors his work in how he deals with paranoia, abuse, and its aftermath. That it all is so intensely present and obsessively observed in his work is just what it is, how the viewer deals with that and Polanski is a separate question.

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

Not claimed as a virtue, just his history. He may not have been a victim of rape per se, but the informing history of victimization is much the same and colors his work in how he deals with paranoia, abuse, and its aftermath. That it all is so intensely present and obsessively observed in his work is just what it is, how the viewer deals with that and Polanski is a separate question.

Glad to know you're not claiming it as a virtue! Yeah, I definitely agree with the observation that it's central to his work. Personally, I see that as a vice, indeed I go so far as to see it as abuse of his victims by other means. But I know that's a very strong claim, and I won't force that on another morally astute film viewer trying to honestly reckon with his work.

[...]

What makes it difficult with an artist like Polanski is that he is quite gifted, aware, and is for some reason driven to look at rape, or more broadly violation in his work and because of that and undoubtedly his own history, his movies often are more "true" to the dynamics of violation than those of lesser directors who treat the subject casually, sloppily, or just poorly. Some feminist writers have recognized that in his films, like Rosemary's Baby and don't think of it as just a sly twist on genre at all, but also are left dealing with the problem raised by the artist's own involvement with the subject making the work/artist connection entirely problematic in how one addresses both. I don't have an answer to that either.

The experience of the films and the knowledge of the artist don't exist tidily in completely separate realms, though people tend to treat them that way after the passing of time or by simply choosing not to examine the issue or by ignoring it. For those who can't or won't there can be the tendency to deny the works any significance by some even in the face of their importance to art history or even some greater social effect, which is also hard to fully justify, but trying to do both, acknowledge significance while not celebrating the artist is fraught with problems of its own.

[flip]

Seen 5ish

liquidnature, you can pick our next director if you like!

[liquidnature]

Seen 5ish

liquidnature, you can pick our next director if you like!

Sweet! So many good options, struggling to pick one.

I'd like to nominate/check views for:

Miklós Jancsó: 4
John Brahm: 4
and if neither of those have enough views,
Leo McCarey: 3

[john ryan]

I have 6 Jancsó. I can watch 2-3 more, but probably not before the poll would start.
11 McCarey

[thoxans]

bitter moon
death and the maiden
the ghost writer
oliver twist
repulsion

*seen eleven

[flip]

if i recall correctly, we checked on mccarey before, and he'll work just fine. so let's see if either of your first choices can work, jancso or brahm, and we'll use mccarey as a fallback. i've seen

2 jancso
7 brahm

and would probably watch another brahm if we did a poll

[...]

I have at least ten Brahm's if you include his Outer Limits work, one of which I'd vote for, just nine or ten otherwise, I'd have to check on one that I might have seen a long time ago. (Also, not enough Jancsos to matter but more than enough McCareys.)

[Holymanm]

2 jancsos, 1 mccarey, love brahms but 0 brahm(s)

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

John Brahm would be a really interesting choice, but I can't help as yet. Seen only 2. Would happily watch more though, either now for a poll or to help get his numbers up for future.

[Umbugbene]

I have 3 Jancsó, 5 Brahm, and 6 McCarey.

[brian d]

i've got plenty of jancsó, never heard of brahm (though when i checked it looks like he's real ), and 4 mccarey.

[oscarwerner]

I have 13 Jancsó, 0 Brahm and 4 McCarey.

[rischka]

5 jancso, 6 brahm and 10 mccarey

[Holymanm]

when i checked

can never be too careful!

[liquidnature]

I'm cool with either one, Jancsó or McCarey.

Doesn't look like we have enough for Brahm yet, worth returning to in the future. Nominated John Brahm because all 4 films of his that I have seen have been good to excellent, particularly The Locket, Hangover Square, and his remake of The Lodger.

[flip]

i think we'll give jancso a shot, i'm pretty sure joks has also seen a lot though he doesn't seem to vote in these things. i'll probably start that poll tomorrow.

i've seen seven brahm films, and the three you name are three of my four favourites, hopefully there are some other gems in his filmography i haven't seen yet.

[wba]

I've seen:

Miklós Jancsó: 11
John Brahm: 1
Leo McCarey: 6

Though I'd be much more interested in polling Ray McCarey, the more talented brother.

[MrCarmady]

Watched Knife in the Water for this, great stuff, it goes onto the list. Like how it ups the stakes in the third act without going too over-the-top. An atmospheric, well shot, Pinter-esque three-hander, with a good runtime and some great Polish jazz. I suppose I should give Cul-de-sac a try now.

[flip]

no big surprises i don't think:

results

1. Chinatown (1974) -- 48 pts
2. Rosemary's Baby (1968) -- 45 pts
3. Repulsion (1965) -- 29 pts
4. Knife in the Water (1962) -- 24 pts
5. The Tenant (1976) -- 22 pts
6. Bitter Moon (1992) -- 21 pts
7. Cul-de-sac (1966) -- 20 pts
8. Tess (1979) -- 15 pts
9. The Ghost Writer (2010) -- 10 pts
10. The Pianist (2002) -- 9 pts
11. The Fearless Vampire Killers (1967) -- 8 pts
12. Frantic (1988) -- 6 pts
12. Macbeth (1971) -- 6 pts
14. The Ninth Gate (1999) -- 4 pts
14. Death and the Maiden (1994) -- 4 pts
16. What? (1972) -- 2 pts
16. Oliver Twist (2005) -- 2 pts
16. Venus in Fur (2013) -- 2 pts
19. The Lamp (1959) -- 1 pt

[flip]

up at letterboxd:

https://letterboxd.com/fliptrotsky/list ... -poll-205/