1993 Poll 2.0

[...]

That's an interesting question! I'm not entirely sure where that trend starts, or quite how to define it beyond the most obvious examples like The Stepfather. But, on some reflection, there was a trend in looking at "the sins of the father", in broad and narrow senses of the term, that was going on in that time period. Movies as diverse as The Piano and Nightmare Before Christmas sorta carried hints of it, with the male protagonist's desire shown as warped and potentially damaging, while there were other films like Naked that weren't exactly about the male patriarch, but some sense of male toxicity. That also might put a different kind of light on movies like The Age of Innocence, where the male lead is trapped by more feminine derived rules of conduct or In the Name of the Father where the "real" patriarchial values of one group have been effectively blocked by the larger systemic forces of imposed government authority.

Once you start looking it becomes hard not to see some indications of that in a lot of movies, but some of that surely comes from the long history of "Red River" like challenges between father and son, where the son has to learn to take up the role of patriarch by duplicating or fighting a misunderstood or corrupted father figure. The trend seems more aligned to something like, say, Poltergeist 2, where the "origin" story of the haunting is tied to the father's decisions on ignoring the past (Indian burial ground thing, kinda like The Shining which might be a key film in the "genre" now that I think about it). King of the Hill and A Perfect World play with the absent father surrogate father side of things, but then there's always Mrs. Doubtfire, Grumpier Old Men and Mr. Nanny to set things right and show men really are pretty charming and capable, despite impressions, when given a chance, so that obviously invalidates the model. Heh.

[...]

Sociologically, for the US, I think you might be able to attribute the trend to the rising divorce rates and worries about absent fathers and deadbeat dads on family units and in providing good role models for young men. It was a big issue around that time, though I can't say for sure what years it peaked without looking into it in more detail. Unsurprisingly perhaps it went from being primarily a white concern about rising divorce rates and failure to pay child support to being more focused on what lack of male influence was doing to Black communities in how it was reported, but the concern over father failure was definitely in the air somewhere around this time period.

[rischka]

ok i watched seopyonje (finally!) so i can make a list...

green snake
d'est
lodz symphony
groundhog day
seopyonje

remains of the day
dazed and confused
the last bolshevik
the bed you sleep in
latcho drom

bodysnatchers
the heroic trio
texas cheerleader mom
hail sarajevo
libera me

[mesnalty]

Final list:

From the East (Akerman)
Naked (Leigh)
The Age of Innocence (Scorsese)
Groundhog Day (Ramis)
Green Snake (Tsui)

Kanehsatake: 270 Years of Resistance (Obomsawin)
Helas pour moi (Godard)
Blue (Jarman)
When Pigs Fly (Driver)
Farewell My Concubine (Chen)

Calendar (Egoyan)
Thirty Two Short Films About Glenn Gould (Girard)
The Baby of Macon (Greenaway)
The Puppetmaster (Hou)
Moving (Somai)

Caro Diario (Moretti)
The Wrong Trousers (Park)
The Tree, the Mayor and the Mediatheque (Rohmer)
The Scent of Green Papaya (Tran)
Clean, Shaven (Kerrigan)

[karl]

ack! once more failed to get round to the puppetmaster.

i'm scratching the big populars (farewell naked groundhogs!), since they'll get their votes anyways.

seopyonje
calendar
scent of green papaya
the blue kite

the last dance (itami)
to the starry island (park)
fox hunter (gulea)
women from the lake of scented souls

sara (mehrjui)
october (sissako)
in a remote plate (teng)
the abadanis (ayari)

the last bolshevik
window to paris (mamin)
country teachers (he)
the fog (kamieńska)

89 mm from europe (Łoziński)
running antelope (nyamgavaa)
passage to buddha (jang)
the wheel (islam)

[...]

Final list:

Household Saints
Latcho Drom
Calendar
The Puppetmaster
Sonatine

Helas por moi
Women from the Lake of Scented Souls
The Cement Garden
Music of Chance
The Bride with White Hair

Flesh and Bone
Green Snake
Eagle Shooting Heroes
The Wedding Banquet
Moving

The Secret Garden
Groundhog Day
The Piano
Painted Skin
Body Snatchers

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

I wanted to get to Heroic Trio, but I never did. My ballot below in five tiers of one.


Double, Double, Toil, and Trouble (Mary Kate & Ashley)

Dottie Gets Spanked (Todd Haynes)

D'Est (Chantal Akerman)

Frank's Cock (Mike Hoolboom)

Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (Bruce Timm, Eric Radomski)

[ofrene]

Abraham’s Valley
Moving
Smoking / No Smoking
The Age of Innocence

A Perfect World
From the East
The Remains of the Day
The Puppetmaster

Carlito’s Way
Lodz Symphony
Short Cuts
The Wrong Trousers

Hail, Sarajevo
Groundhog Day
The Last Bolshevik
The Young Girls Turn 25

Farewell My Concubine
Jurassic Park
The Piano
The Tree, the Mayor and the Mediatheque

[Lencho of the Apes]

OK, I guess this will do.

The Baby Of Macon - Greenaway
Dollar Mambo - Leduc
Green Snake - Tsui Hark
A Night In Nude -
Oh Woe Is Me - Godard

Eagle Shooting Heroes
Fusa - Ichikawa
Gentleman (Shankar)
The Mad Monk -- Johnnie To + 1
The Tree, the Mayor and the Mediatheque (Éric Rohmer)

Heart Of Darkness - Nicolas Roeg
Blue - Jarman
The extras
Fresa Y Chocolate - Gutierrez Alea
Matinee - Joe Dante

Clean, Shaven - Lodge Herrigan
Cronos
Dangerous Game - Ferrara
Totally F***ed Up - Gregg Araki
Watcher in the attic

[deepbluefunk]

Naked (Mike Leigh)
Farewell My Concubine (Chen Kaige)
32 Short Films About Glenn Gould (Francois Girard)
Fearless (Peter Weir)

The Age of Innocence (Martin Scorsese)
Schindler's List (Steven Spielberg)
Short Cuts (Robert Altman)
Six Degrees of Separation (Fred Schepisi)

Green Snake (Tsui Hark)
The Mighty River "Le Fleuve aux Grandes Eaux" (Frederick Back)
In the Name of the Father (Jim Sheridan)
Killing Zoe (Roger Avary)

Three Colors: Blue: (Krzysztof Kieślowski)
True Romance (Tony Scott)
The Nightmare Before Christmas (Henry Selick)
Blue (Derek Jarman)

Dangerous Game (Abel Ferrara)
The Joy Luck Club (Wayne Wang)
Theremin: An Electronic Odyssey (Steven M. Martin)
The Buddha of Suburbia (Roger Michell)

FINAL

Some tough cuts

[ororama]

1. The Bride with White Hair (Ronny Yu)
2. Groundhog Day (Harold Ramis)
3. Tai Chi Master (Yuen Woo-Ping)
4. Dazed and Confused (Richard Linklater)
5. The Scent of Green Papaya (Anh Hung Tran)
6. The Nightmare Before Christmas (Henry Selick)
7. C'est la Vie, Mon Chéri (Yee Tung-Shing)
8. The Heroic Trio (Johnnie To)
9. The Blue Kite (Zhuangzhuang Tian)
10. Clean, Shaven (Lodge Kerrigan)
11. Naked (Mike Leigh)
12. The Wedding Banquet (Ang Lee)
13. M. Butterfly (David Cronenberg)
14. Schindler's List (Steven Spielberg)
15. Fong Sai Yuk (Corey Yuen)
16. Cronos (Guillermo del Toro)
17. The Dark Half (George A. Romero)
18. Matinee (Joe Dante)
19. La Scorta (Ricky Tognazzi)
20. Last Hero in China (Yuen Woo-Ping, Wong Jing)

[Silga]

Final list:

Three Colors: Blue (Krzysztof Kieslowski)
Jurassic Park (Steven Spielberg)
Schindler's List (Steven Spielberg)
Menace II Society (Albert Hughes, Allen Hughes)
A Bronx Tale (Robert De Niro)

Heaven & Earth (Oliver Stone)
The Fugitive (Andrew Davis)
The Pelican Brief (Alan J. Pakula)
In the Line of Fire (Wolfgang Petersen)
Grumpy Old Men (Donald Petrie)

The Firm (Sydney Pollack)
True Romance (Tony Scott)
Philadelphia (Jonathan Demme)
A Perfect World (Clint Eastwood)
Manhattan Murder Mystery (Woody Allen)

Carlito's Way (Brian De Palma)
Groundhog Day (Harold Ramis)
Body Snatchers (Abel Ferrara)
Red Rock West (John Dahl)
Sugar Hill (Leon Ichaso)

[lineuphere]

Final list if they're still being considered:

Three Colors: Blue (Krzysztof Kieslowski)
The Mighty River (Frederick Back)
The Puppetmaster (Hou)
Short Cuts (Altman)

The Blue Kite (Zhuangzhuang Tian)
Blue (Derek Jarman)
The Piano (Campion)
Dear Diary (Moretti)

Les demoiselles ont eu 25 ans (Varda)
The Age of Innocence (Scorsese)
Farewell My Concubine (Chen)
Wallace & Gromit in The Wrong Trousers (Park)

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

Results

All movies receiving 6.5 or more points listed below.

Two movies with 'Blue' for a title in the top ten!

1 Carlito's Way / 32
— Groundhog Day / 32
3 A Perfect World / 30.5
4 Short Cuts / 29.5
5 Green Snake / 29
6 Naked / 27.5
7 The Puppet Master / 26.5
8 Blue / 25
9 Helas Pour Moi / 23
— Three Colors: Blue / 23

11 Farewell My Concubine / 22
12 D'Est / 20.5
13 Schindler's List / 20
— The Age of Innocence / 20
— The Remains of the Day / 20
16 The Piano / 19.5
17 The Tree, the Mayor, and the Mediatheque / 18.5
18 Moving / 18
— Sonatine / 18
20 Calendar / 17
— Manhattan Murder Mystery / 17

22 The Scent of Green Papaya / 16.5
23 The Blue Kite / 16
24 The Last Bolshevik / 15.5
25 Dear Diary / 14.5
26 The Baby of Macon / 14
27 Clean, Shaven / 13.5
— Dazed and Confused / 13.5
29 Lodz Symphony / 13
— Smoking/No Smoking / 13
— True Romance / 13

32 Flesh and Bone / 12.5
33 Jurassic Park / 12
— Seopyonje / 12
35 Je Vous Salue, Sarajevo / 11.5
36 The Women from the Lake of Scented Souls / 10.5
— The Wrong Trousers / 10.5
38 Abraham's Valley / 10
— The Bed You Sleep In / 10
40 A Bronx Tale / 9.5
— In the Name of the Father / 9.5

42 A Night in Nude / 9
— The Nightmare Before Christmas / 9
44 Matinee / 8.5
— The Fugitive / 8.5
— The Wedding Banquet / 8.5
47 Arizona Dream / 8
— Body Snatchers / 8
— Cliffhanger / 8
— M. Butterfly / 8
— The Mighty River / 8
— When Pigs Fly / 8

53 Latcho Drom / 7.5
— Menace II Society / 7.5
— The Cement Garden / 7.5
— Thirty Two Short Films about Glenn Gould / 7.5
57 Apostle of Ruins / 7
— I Was a Teenage Serial Killer / 7
— Kanehsatake: 270 Years of Resistance / 7
— Philadelphia / 7
— The Heroic Trio / 7

62 Antareen / 6.5
— Dangerous Game / 6.5
— Falling Down / 6.5
— Faraway, So Close! / 6.5
— Frank's Cock / 6.5
— In the Line of Fire / 6.5
— Ocean Waves / 6.5
— Patlabor 2 / 6.5
— The Bride with White Hair / 6.5

[...]

Carlito's Way?? That's unexpected.

[Angel]

Gosh, I have voted for the winner!

[flip]

whoa

[Curtis, baby]

im the only one to vote for kurosawa's final film? i knew this place was atypically unenthusiastic about kurosawa but srsly?

[wba]

im the only one to vote for kurosawa's final film? i knew this place was atypically unenthusiastic about kurosawa but srsly?

2 films from my top 4 got no votes at all as well. And I'm sure they are far superior to Kurosawa's last film (which I haven't seen).