Languages

[Curtis, baby]

I love Duolingo because it's a game

Haha. That's actually the thing I like about it the least! Like I don't want open up treasure chests

The other thing I don't like about Duolingo is it tells me that entschuldigung or w/e is sorry**, but it doesn't tell me why. it actually transliterates more to "excusing", or to break it down, "and-culpable-ing"... schuld (or shuldig) means debt or liability (or guilty or indebted), something like that, I just looked it up and don't remember everything I read. But that'll help me remember it. Just seeing that "sorry" is "entschuldigung" is so nebulous, it forces me to make this brand new connection, when really all I had to learn is that "ent" means "and" (will definitely be useful a ton more) that "ung" means "ing" (same thing) and that shuld/schuldig relates to guilt/debt/liability (will probably be a bit useful at some point)

Anyone know of any resources that are very etymological in their approach like that?

**Edit: same now with "es tut mir leid"!!

[brian d]

Interesting. Thank you!

What languages do you speak if you don't mind me asking? At least ENglish/Spanish/Port./German I'm guessing?

english (native), spanish (near-native), portuguese enough to read it no problem and speak it decently but my accent sucks, german which i used to speak very well but haven’t spoken it consistently for about 10 years, italian and french enough to get by without much trouble but can’t hold a conversation in them.

[liquidnature]

I'm very back and forth with the practicalities of language learning. When I started this thread I was extremely motivated, right now not so much. But I'll always love languages and probably always have the desire to learn them. I mostly just use Spanish on the daily at my work, and it's mostly small talk with simplistic dialogue. It has practical application and I actually need it to properly communicate with some of my coworkers, so it works out well. But I'm not furthering my studies at all currently.

As far as non-Latin writing systems, it's much easier than one would think, I've found. In a weird way, I think it actually makes learning a language easier. Once you've learned the phonetics of it, your brain just seems to run with it and it makes the meanings stand out much more than languages with Latin alphabets. At least that was my experience with Hebrew.

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

I love Duolingo because it's a game

Haha. That's actually the thing I like about it the least! Like I don't want open up treasure chests

Oh, totally - I too find tremendously irksome all the pop-ups about treasure chests, leaderboards, and 'lingots'. Just like the main portion of the game, i.e. the skill-building tests themselves.

[pabs]

I was born into a French-speaking family, and French was the only language I knew until I went to kindergarten when I was 4 years old, from which time English started encroaching until it became my dominant language.

I'm still completely fluent in French, and reading and speaking it is easy (though I have a slight English accent sometimes), but I rarely use it to write, so when I do, I tend to make quite a few spelling and grammatical errors.

I know a few dozen words and phrases of Italian and Spanish. Spanish is easier for me to understand than Italian, I can often correctly work out the meaning of many Spanish words thanks to its being closer to French. Italian is trickier, with far fewer words that are recognisable to French ears and eyes.

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

I've taken to reading French kids books about movies, which I highly recommend; if you know the subject well in English, that makes it easier.

That sounds like a great exercise. Any recommendations of specific books that I'd be able to find at a public library in an very Anglophonic (and more importantly very un-Francophonic) city?

Sure thing! No guarantees on availability of course, but some possibilities I've encountered: Le Cinema (Dominique Auzel); Connais-tu Charlie Chaplin? (Johanne Ménard); La réalisation d'un film (Deborah Fox).

[Curtis, baby]

Damn, unfortunately my library doesn't have any of those specifically. I might go rock a browse tmr

[Curtis, baby]

How's everyone's language studying going? I've taken a break from French but I've been doing lots of German and will resume French soon.

Have learned how to say some important things, such as "ich kiffe nur toll Gras". I mean I'm basically ready for Berlin now, you know...

[Umbugbene]

Well I finished the German course on Duolingo, so I've started learning Danish. Not necessarily planning to finish, but I'd like to have a basic familiarity to enhance my travels and film viewing.

[liquidnature]

Have a lot going on in my personal life that has made language learning impractical for the moment, but I plan on continuing in the near future.

[MrCarmady]

My native language is Russian although my English is better these days, having lived in an English-speaking country for over a decade and doing most of my reading, movie-watching, and socialising in it. I am also fluent in German, having lived there in my teens, but definitely better at the other two. I've been trying to learn French on Duolingo but it's slow-going as I'm used to learning through immersion first and foremost, and I know a smattering of Spanish (having also done Latin in school at some point but forgotten most of it)

[Monsieur Arkadin]

I genuinely don't know how people get good at other languages. I'm a native English speaker... who is genuinely interested in other languages, but can never seem to move beyond intermediate level with any of them.

I studied French for years, in France. I'm intermediate. I can speak, read and write ok. Really bad at listening though. To the degree that I can't really communicate beyond basic traveling/ordering in a restaurant, etc. I can watch a French film with French subtitles and follow about 80%.

I lived in Taiwan and studied Chinese. Never learned to read/write, but had decent Traveler's Chinese.

Living in Palestine I had decent traveler's Arabic (at least Palestinian dialect) and I can read and write it... I just don't have the vocabulary to make that skill worth much other than deciphering street signs, reading menus, etc. Trying really hard to retain and build it, but Dialect Arabic is especially hard to maintain without constant immersion for me. This is the one I'm most sad about losing.

I decided to translate Camus' L'etranger into English just for practice, and it's a real challenge, but it's keeping that part of my brain working.

[liquidnature]

I genuinely don't know how people get good at other languages. I'm a native English speaker... who is genuinely interested in other languages, but can never seem to move beyond intermediate level with any of them.

I can relate to this feeling. Even though I've done a fair amount of learning, I've always either felt stuck or unmotivated with trying to move beyond the intermediate stage - partially because I'm not entirely sure how to do so.

On a positive note, I started studying/learning Spanish again during the lockdown and over the past 30 days or so have seen quite dramatic improvement. The key for me has been consistency, doing a set amount every day no matter what - something I lacked in the past. I'm mostly doing Memrise, several free grammar-centric websites like Lingolia, and YouTube videos.

[brian d]

I genuinely don't know how people get good at other languages. I'm a native English speaker... who is genuinely interested in other languages, but can never seem to move beyond intermediate level with any of them.

I can relate to this feeling. Even though I've done a fair amount of learning, I've always either felt stuck or unmotivated with trying to move beyond the intermediate stage - partially because I'm not entirely sure how to do so.

it's not a strategy, but if it helps at all in the motivation area most people have plateaus as they learn a language, so they'll get to a certain level and then stay there for a while, and then at some point with continued contact and use bump up to another level. (level in just a generic sense, not necessarily in a set proficiency sense.) what's weird is that a lot of times they start making more
mistakes before they move up off that plateau. that can feel frustrating because it feels like moving backwards but it's likely just the brain putting effort into some new constructions so it doesn't spend as much effort on the ones that are already known. but with enough contact and use it should almost always be possible to improve. (it just gets harder with age. )

[wba]

I genuinely don't know how people get good at other languages. I'm a native English speaker... who is genuinely interested in other languages, but can never seem to move beyond intermediate level with any of them.

I can relate to this feeling. Even though I've done a fair amount of learning, I've always either felt stuck or unmotivated with trying to move beyond the intermediate stage - partially because I'm not entirely sure how to do so.

it's not a strategy, but if it helps at all in the motivation area most people have plateaus as they learn a language, so they'll get to a certain level and then stay there for a while, and then at some point with continued contact and use bump up to another level. (level in just a generic sense, not necessarily in a set proficiency sense.) what's weird is that a lot of times they start making more
mistakes before they move up off that plateau. that can feel frustrating because it feels like moving backwards but it's likely just the brain putting effort into some new constructions so it doesn't spend as much effort on the ones that are already known. but with enough contact and use it should almost always be possible to improve. (it just gets harder with age. )

yeah, I had this same effect with my first "foreign" language, when I started learning it at school. At first I was excellent, then after about 2 years I inexplicably started to get much worse, and then it went through the roof over the next 5 or 6 years. I'm so much worse nowadays, that I can't believe I was ever so good at it (especially at the level of conversing - when I was 18 and travelling in London, a few native Londoners asked me - unconnected to each other - which part of England I came from, cause they couldn't place my accent/dialect, but they never assumed I was a foreigner until I told them so). It gets much much harder with age, but I also saw my Italian suddenly get inexplicably considerably better some years ago (can't speak it though - only when reading), without me having put any more effort into it than before (which was extremely little). It's like suddenly you've been upgraded in a computer game.
So I'd suggest anyone trying to learn a language to give yourself a lot of time and to never "give up", so to speak.

[Aureliu]

Any suggestions for learning languages and learning two at once?

I know this is over a year late but my advice for learning two at once is learn one first then learn the other.

[thoxans]

note to self: start learning japanese!!!

*and while i probs won't, this comment - now that i've put it out there into the ether - will act as a constant reminder that i should be ashamed of myself for not doing what i say i'm gonna do, yet another entry on my ever ongoing to-do-but-didn't list, which includes other oldies but goodies such as 'exercise more,' 'eat better,' and 'imbibe less'

[thoxans]

started using duolingo thx to this thread! it's fun. i don't mind the gamification of education so much. doubt anyone uses duolingo for its gamier aspects, so it's really just a safety net to capture the unenthused/unmotivated who want to learn another language, but might otherwise be easily disengaged by more blandly rote methods. with all that being said, i'm totes kickin ass in the bronze league. andreaa is in a distant second with near 400 XP less than me, so booyah anonymous internet stranger who also wants to learn japanese!

[Holymanm]

note to self: start learning japanese!!!

for that (and maybe for language stuff in general) i highly recommend the classic old Pimsleur audiotapes - even the first few 30 minute lessons will have you 2000% further than you started. they can be found in mainstream t*rr**ts but let me know if you need an upload!

[thoxans]

upload!

please! i have intermittent access to decent internet now to actually dl stuff. speaking of which, that reminds me, i need to start checking the resources folder more often...

[Aureliu]

note to self: start learning japanese!!!

What's your strategy so far for tackling Japanese?

[thoxans]

strategy so far

calling it a strategy would be generous tbh. just been doing at least an hour per day on duolingo so far. checked to see if my local library had any books on the subject, but they didn't. will dl holymanm's resources, once posted. oh, and i watched a hirokazu kore-eda flick! caught one or two words, and thought to myself, 'oh i know what that is now'

[Aureliu]

If for whatever reason Duolingo doesn't work out I recommend Memrise. Their recent updates on Japanese 0,1, and 2 have been great. When I tried Pinsleur it didn't matter how many times I heard the word, if I couldn't see them written down with their individual characters I could never get them.

Researching online you probably already know this but with self-taught Japanese the way to go seems to be:

1.Learn Hiragana and Katakana
2.Learn some Kanji, probably need like 3000 or something to be fluent, but start with the 1000 most frequently used.
3.Learn Basic Grammar
4.Learn sentences

And you do all this while watching Kore-eda flicks and other Japanese stuff with Jap subs or no subs.

[Holymanm]

upload!

please! i have intermittent access to decent internet now to actually dl stuff. speaking of which, that reminds me, i need to start checking the resources folder more often...

up in resources!

[Holymanm]

If for whatever reason Duolingo doesn't work out I recommend Memrise. Their recent updates on Japanese 0,1, and 2 have been great. When I tried Pinsleur it didn't matter how many times I heard the word, if I couldn't see them written down with their individual characters I could never get them.

Researching online you probably already know this but with self-taught Japanese the way to go seems to be:

1.Learn Hiragana and Katakana
2.Learn some Kanji, probably need like 3000 or something to be fluent, but start with the 1000 most frequently used.
3.Learn Basic Grammar
4.Learn sentences

And you do all this while watching Kore-eda flicks and other Japanese stuff with Jap subs or no subs.

Part of it really depends on the individual too, of course - what your learning style is, what you're good or bad at. I did the first few Pimsleur lessons a couple times some 8 months ago, when I was in Japan (JESUS THIS YEAR HAS BEEN LONG ALREADY!!!) - haven't practiced them at all since - and I still remember every single construction perfectly, in the exact voice in which the folks spoke them.

...That being said, I am absolutely godawful at ever just listening to a language spoken casually and conversationally, and understanding, or picking up on, any of it at all. Even languages in which I am ostensibly, err, fluent. But if people enunciate clearly and plainly, especially with an "educated" accent, I'll remember it forever. So I guess I'm both good and bad at aural learning??

^ Regarding the proper way to go about learning it seriously, you're absolutely right. Start with the characters/alphabet/pronunciation (of any language), learn the basic grammar and basic words, slowly progress up from there. But that's if you're a very motivated and focused person (or if you have to learn it for school), and if you're one of those you probably wouldn't be asking for help in the first place, ne? So I would still recommend trying something like the Pimsleur stuff just for a couple hours, and seeing if it helps at all. I was absolutely shocked by how much it helped me, given my low expectations, and given how little Duolingo or anything ever did for me!

[Aureliu]

Any input you get in a language is better than no input. But you're right when you say you really have to find what works for you.

What I meant when I mentioned Pimsleur was that without first learning the phonetic system separately I could never understand how some words were actually pronounced. I could never visualize them in my head and had a difficult time remembering them.

Some people need to start speaking immediately in order to be motivated to keep learning, I'm guessing those people benefit from Pimsleur the most.

[Holymanm]

Oh yeah, I already knew all the fundamentals of the phonetic system before I started Pimsleur, so that would help indeed! With Japanese it's pretty simple, at least; the characters are mostly always pronounced the same way, without much in the way of strange accents or anything. (E is always the same E sound; not É, È, Ê, Ë.)

In one of my Spanish courses in uni, I had an American-born professor for it - very nice person, but still spoke American-accented Spanish, so whenever she said anything in Spanish I was absolutely lost and didn't understand any of it! Stuck between the worlds of English and Spanish! So I switched to another section, with an Ecuadorian professor who enunciated everything very deliberately, and for that whole course if I ever had to remember how to spell "empezar" - not "empazar" - I just remembered the exact sound of him pronouncing it in class at some point, and spelling was easy (with Spanish being so phonetic)! But people do seem to learn in different ways... other minds are confusing

[thoxans]

up

noice

[kanafani]

https://twitter.com/shockproofbeats/sta ... 8114475010

[thoxans]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe_ae_hOU1c