SCFZ poll: Edwin S Porter

[flip]

Polling the films of director Edwin S Porter

The rules:

- your list can include no more than half of the Porter films you've seen, up to a maximum of 5. So if you've seen seven of his films, for example, you can list only a top 3. It's only if you've seen ten or more of his films than you can list the maximum of five.

- i'll assume ballots are ranked unless you tell me otherwise. unranked ballots are fine.

- deadline for ballots: next Tuesday, in seven days, whatever day that is

- if anyone is watching films for these polls, then i'll extend the deadline up to three days, if someone requests an extension

- next poll: whoever posts the first ballot in this thread is free to nominate the director we poll next, unless you've nominated in this round already (everyone should get a chance). Already nominated this round: oscarwerner, greennui, mesnalty, bure, ofrene, arkheia, brian d, rischka, twodeadmagpies, john ryan, karl, umbugbene, greg x

umbugbene created an index on letterboxd of all of our previous polls here: letterboxd.com/umbugbene/list/index-of-all-scfz-director-polls/

one rule for nominees: at least 3 scfzers need to have seen 10+ of a nominee's films, or at least 4 scfzers need to have seen at least 8 of the nom's films, so if it isn't clear if that will be the case, we'll confirm that's true before moving forward

if 24 hours pass after a poll opens, and no one eligible to nominate has posted a ballot, then i'll nominate someone, and then we'll start over, and everyone will be able to nominate again

[flip]

The Great Train Robbery
Dream of a Rarebit Fiend
Life of an American Fireman
Police Chasing Scorching Auto

seen 9

[mesnalty]

Seen 11:

1. Coney Island at Night
2. The Great Train Robbery
3. Dream of a Rarebit Fiend
4. The Gay Shoe Clerk
5. The 'Teddy' Bears

[rischka]

porter huh. was hoping for mccarey. oh well

the night before christmas (1905)
laughing gas (1907)
life of an american fireman (1903)
dream of a rarebit fiend (1906)
the great train robbery (1903)

[Lencho of the Apes]

Seen 47.

Coney Island At Night
The Price
The Kleptomaniac
The Ex-Convict
Rescued From An Eagle's Nest

If I'm the nominator, pass on down the list.

[brian d]

just 2

the great train robbery

[Curtis, baby]

seen 30

The Night Before Christmas
A Little Girl Who Did Not Believe in Santa Claus
The Gay Shoe Clerk
Fun in a Bakery Shop
The Great Train Robbery

[mesnalty]

Seen enough to vote for 5 now, so I updated my list. Porter's sloppiness with continuity generally keeps me from really embracing his films, though it's so early in the history of narrative film that maybe I shouldn't care. But if we're valorizing early films for their formal innovations, I think we should also take seriously their formal shortcomings. Not a super enthusiastic set of votes, then; the vote for The 'Teddy' Bears is mostly for the wonderful stop-motion sequence and the fact that the ending is just bonkers.

[greennui]

Trapeze Disrobing Act
The Gay Shoe Clerk
Pan-American Exposition by Night
Panorama of Esplanade by Night
Coney Island at Night

[...]

the vote for The 'Teddy' Bears is mostly for the wonderful stop-motion sequence and the fact that the ending is just bonkers.

No kidding, that is one weird little film.

I appreciate Porter for how many different things he tried, not content to just do the same things over again, but play with a lot of different ideas, mostly to reasonable enough success without being too exceptional, but occasionally with some real inspiration. His more practical inventiveness and curiosity in his willingness to constantly try new things makes him an invaluable contributor to film history. If he didn't fully work out the possible uses for everything he tried, he at least opened a path for others to follow and more fully develop the techniques and concepts. He's maybe more a bookkeeping kind of choice for a poll in that he's necessary to have but maybe not the most fun. Although I do find some of his films enjoyable myself and really dig seeing how they worked out some of the tricks of the trade as they went along.

[oscarwerner]

Seen only 3.
I vote for
1.The Great Train Robbery (1903)
This way i pay tribute to my favorite western genre.

[wba]

01. Jack and the Beanstalk (1902)

Porter seen: 2

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

1. The Great Train Robbery (1903)
2. How a French Nobleman Got a Wife Through the ‘New York Herald’ Personal Columns (1904)
3. A Winter Straw Ride (1906)
4. Uncle Josh at the Moving Picture Show (1902)
5. Laughing Gas (1907)

(seen 51 by Porter)

[liquidnature]

Only seen one at the moment, but gonna try to watch at least a few, especially any Christmas/Winter ones. Browsing his oeuvre on letterboxd - what a strange yet interesting mash of topics. Seems fun to explore.

[...]

How a French Nobleman Got a Wife Through the ‘New York Herald’ Personal Columns (1904)

Sort of the ur-Seven Chances, Keaton must have seen it and saw how much more could be done with its comedic potential.

[liquidnature]

Seen 5. Hope to update with a few more before the poll closes

1. The Night Before Christmas (1905)
2. A Winter Straw Ride (1906)

[flip]

seen: 2

hey wba, you can pick our next director if you want!

[Lencho of the Apes]

French Nobleman

ur-Seven Chances

There's another 1904 on the same subject, called Personal, by E. McCutcheon for Biograph; I don't have access to reliable info, but imdb says Porter's version was released in September and that Personal was earlier. It''s on YT.

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

French Nobleman

ur-Seven Chances

There's another 1904 on the same subject, called Personal, by E. McCutcheon for Biograph; I don't have access to reliable info, but imdb says Porter's version was released in September and that Personal was earlier. It''s on YT.

Yeah, Biograph's Personal definitely came first. I'm reading now that they even (unsuccessfully) sued Edison over Porter's film! But hey, that's early cinema for you, remakes and duplications and copyright infringement oh my!

[...]

There's another 1904 on the same subject, called Personal, by E. McCutcheon for Biograph; I don't have access to reliable info, but imdb says Porter's version was released in September and that Personal was earlier.

Heh. I should have guessed that might be a possibility since that kind of copying certainly wasn't unusual for the time, even so had I guessed but not known which came first, I likely would have thought Porter's was the original since it is better developed and has the more involved title, so it's good to know it was the copy, and quite a close one at that, but still a bit better in developing the slight characterizations and situation I think. The way the would-be bridegroom introduces himself to all the women at Grant's Tomb with the more exaggerated bow that speeds up as more women arrive and the end scene in the pond are better realized. The chase itself is a bit different too at times, like when the women navigate crossing the fence or the log on the street, as Porter keeps each successive woman from appearing on screen until the preceding one has overcome the obstacle, where the biograph movie had them more bunched together in their fence hopping bit.

I also just found out that Porter got his start with movies as someone who exhibited them in programs when they were 30 second to a minute long shorts. This makes a lot of sense as the construction of the programs meant selecting different 30 second shorts to piece together to provide a kind of story about some subjects, like the Spanish American war. It was a crude type of editing in that way, which had to inform how he would later come to understand constructing longer short films on his own. He didn't quite make the leap to where movies would go in terms of cross cutting on his own, but a lot of his solutions had their own kind of elegance or at least cleverness in how they told their stories. Some of it borrowed from theater quite obviously, some from comics and other print/painted media, but some not really seeming to have any definitive precursor other than piecing together different visual concepts to provide alternative view points and commentary of sorts. The "Teddy" Bears, for example, is weird, but also clever somewhat sophisticated satire, associating Teddy Roosevelt with Goldilocks and throwing some consumerist shade on the "great white hunter" thing he was basking in with much of the press. Coney Island at Night, in a different sense, is also really clever, a long shot panning right to left across the lightscape of the park in the first segment, then at "Dreamland" follows a lighted tower in greater close up from the top down and back up in a vertical pan before staying in a closer shot and panning horizontally left to right back across Luna Park in the final segment. It's a nifty little geometry that gives the short some nice unity of construction.

[wba]

seen: 2

hey wba, you can pick our next director if you want!

Great! I'd like to try Mamoru Oshii once more.

If that still doesn't work, then Sabu or Sogo Ishii. Ron Howard is the fallback option.

[Evelyn Library P.I.]

I likely would have thought Porter's was the original since it is better developed and has the more involved title, so it's good to know it was the copy, and quite a close one at that, but still a bit better in developing the slight characterizations and situation.

Definitely agree. I'm of the view that imitation could, sometimes, be the sincerest form of creativity and the development of film style, in those early days. And I also especially love the French nobleman's repeating deep bows when introduced to each woman by Grant's Tomb, a hilarious performance in my book.

I also just found out that Porter got his start with movies as someone who exhibited them in programs when they were 30 second to a minute long shorts. This makes a lot of sense as the construction of the programs meant selecting different 30 second shorts to piece together to provide a kind of story about some subjects, like the Spanish American war. It was a crude type of editing in that way, which had to inform how he would later come to understand constructing longer short films on his own.

That's such an insightful observation! That makes a lot of sense to me, as to how Porter became Porter.

[Lencho of the Apes]

I'm at 0, 1 or 2 for all four of the directors WBA suggested. Sorry...

[flip]

Great! I'd like to try Mamoru Oshii once more.

If that still doesn't work, then Sabu or Sogo Ishii. Ron Howard is the fallback option.

i think we tried those directors before, but we can check again - if anyone is close to 8 views on oshii, sabu or ishii, please post here; otherwise, ron howard! i'm planning to take a week off polls, might not have a computer with me over the holidays, so we have six days to work out who our next director will be

[...]

I have 10 Oshiis

[...]

Tough to cut it down to five now that I've watched most of what's available from Porter, other than the movies Fandor somehow has as exclusive. (That can't seriously be a copyright thing I hope, I mean copyright is completely broken in the US, but that'd be completely ridiculous. Which means I guess it probably is true.) I obviously left off a few of the most famous of his works even though they deserve their spots but I really dig these as well and they don't get the same attention.

Maniac Chase (1904)
What Happened on Twenty-Third Street, New York City (1901)
College Chums (1907)
Holdup of the Rocky Mountain Express (1906)
Babies Rolling Eggs (1902)

My Favorites of the rest in rough order of preference:

The Great Train Robbery
Dream of a Rarebit Fiend
The Attack on the Mill
A Little Girl Who Did Not Believe in Santa Claus
The 'Teddy' Bear
A Winter Straw Ride

The Strenuous Life; or, Anti-Race Suicide
The Kleptomaniac
The Ex-Convict
Laughing Gas
The Miller's Daughter
Life of an American Fireman
Coney Island at Night
The Lighthouse by the Sea
How a French Nobleman Got a Wife Through the ‘New York Herald’ Personal Columns
Getting Evidence
The Rivals

Scenes in an Infant Orphan Asylum
Rounding Up of the “Yeggmen”
Skirmish between Russian and Japanese advance guards
The Artist's Dilemma
Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland
Love by the Light of the Moon

Rube and Mandy at Coney Island
The Little Train Robbery
A Romance of the Rail
A Suburbanite’s Ingenious Alarm
Another Job for the Undertaker
New York City Dumping Wharf
The Extra Turn
Dog Factory
Buster and Tige Put a Balloon Vendor Out of Business

[flip]

oshii seems the most likely suggestion to work (besides ron howard) -- anyone else seen several oshii films?

[nrh]

13 oshii not counting his tv series credits

[flip]

ok we'll go with an oshii poll, i'll start that soon, been traveling so just getting back to things

[flip]

looks like i forgot to tally this, if anyone was eagerly awaiting results, they'll be up soon!