SCFZ poll: Werner Schroeter

[flip]

Polling the films of Werner Schroeter.

The rules:

- your list can include no more than half of the Schroeter films you've seen, up to a maximum of 5. So if you've seen seven of his films, for example, you can list only a top 3. It's only if you've seen ten or more of his films than you can list the maximum of five.

- i'll assume ballots are ranked unless you tell me otherwise. unranked ballots are fine.

- deadline for ballots: next Friday, in seven days, whatever day that is

- if anyone is watching films for these polls, then i'll extend the deadline up to three days, if someone requests an extension

- next poll: whoever posts the first ballot in this thread is free to nominate the director we poll next, unless you've nominated in this round already (everyone should get a chance). Already nominated this round: bure, greennui

umbugbene created an index on letterboxd of all of our previous polls here: letterboxd.com/umbugbene/list/index-of-all-scfz-director-polls/

one rule for nominees: at least 3 scfzers need to have seen 10+ of a nominee's films, or at least 4 scfzers need to have seen at least 8 of the nom's films, so if it isn't clear if that will be the case, we'll confirm that's true before moving forward

if 24 hours pass after a poll opens, and no one eligible to nominate has posted a ballot, then i'll nominate someone, and then we'll start over, and everyone will be able to nominate again

[flip]

we'll definitely use the extended rules:

- if you've seen an odd number, you can round up instead of down when deciding the length of your ballot (e.g. if seen 7, you can vote for 4 instead of 3)
- if you've seen more than 10, you can vote for more than 5

[flip]

Der Rosenkonig

only seen one, but it was very good

[greennui]

14.

The Death of Maria Malibran
Willow Springs
Day of the Idiots
Der Bomberpilot
Goldflocken
Johannas Traum
Eika Katappa

[ole dole doff]

Palermo or Wolfsburg
Johannas Dream
Aggression
Argila
The Kingdom of Naples
Death of Maria Malibran
Willow Springs

Day of Idiots
The Pilot of the Bomber
The Rose King
Two
Malina
Neurasia
Callas Walking Lucia

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1/ prior to the poll, watched NEURASIA, MALINA, WILLOW SPRINGS, AGGRESSION, DAY OF THE IDIOTS, PALERMO OR WOLFSBURG.
1.1/ out of these films, the only one i was not able to relate to was NEURASIA. but not necessarily a shortcoming of the film (maybe i was just not in the compatible/receptive mood).
1.2/ MALINA, WILLOW SPRINGS, AGGRESSION, DAY OF THE IDIOTS i liked but all of them are already somewhat blurred within my memory. i would need to rewatch these films to make a relevant vote. however, i will devout my poll time to new viewings and thus i will vote/non-vote to any of these rather haphazardly.
1.2.1/ maybe i will vote for AGGRESSION because it is an internal monologue movie that is my cherished genre.
1.2.2/ i might vote for DAY OF IDIOTS because it has a local flavor. this film was partly shot in communist Czechoslovakia and part of the cast & crew were my fellow countrymen/countrywomen. especially noteworthy in this regards is the scriptwriter Daňa Horáková (who was the wife of Pavel Juráček, one of the key figures of Czech New Wave filmmaking). lately, all of Pavel Juráček's diaries were published. btw. there is a film based on a snippet from these diaries called THE KEY FOR DETERMINING DWARFS OR THE LAST TRAVEL OF LEMUEL GULLIVER (Martin Šulík, 2002). Daňa Horáková was asked to write a side note to the volume dealing with years of their (Daňa's & Pavel's) exile in West Germany. from the intended side note ultimately emerged a full next volume (this time written by Daňa) called "About Pavel". it caused a stir in the local milieu because creative genius Pavel is portrayed there as a narcissistic, ego-maniacal jerk. allegedly, there is also a passage in this volume about the making of DAY OF IDIOTS. reading all the Pavel Juráček diaries and also the extra volume by Daňa Horáková is one of my many ongoing plans.
1.3/ gonna vote for sure (and most probably it is gonna be my top — if i won't watch something mind-blowing in the next days) for PALERMO OR WOLFSBURG. i consider this film outstanding! love it! (and thus i am very curious about THE KINGDOM OF NAPLES.)

2/ for the poll, watched (so far) CALLAS WALKING LUCIA, THE PILOT OF THE BOMBER.
2.1/ CALLAS WALKING LUCIA is one of the early films that is dealing with Werner's obsession with Maria Callas. i can't much relate to this obsession but i might try to watch at least one more short flick of this kind before the poll is over.
2.2/ THE PILOT OF THE BOMBER is probably (somewhat) related to the other two films of Werner's oeuvre:
2.2.1/ with WILLOW SPRINGS it has in common a group of female friends (as the main protagonists). in WILLOW SPRINGS they are cult members, in THE PILOT OF THE BOMBER they are cabaret singers (entertaining initially the soldiers on the command of Hitler and ultimately soldiers on the command of Nixon).
2.2.2/ THE PILOT OF THE BOMBER might have also something in common with THE KINGDOM OF NAPLES because both of these films are chronicles of the post-war decades (either of West Germany or of Italy).
2.2.3/ moreover, watching this film and reading Werner Schroeter's obituary in Guardian made me also become preoccupied with the following:
in THE PILOT OF THE BOMBER one can encounter displays of female nudity that can be perceived as sheer exploitation. there is also a scene that is explicitly ironizing feminism. plus in the obituary, i stumbled upon the following claim related to MALINA...

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2010/a ... r-obituary
Schroeter returned to cinema in 1991 with Malina, based on a novel by the feminist Austrian author Ingeborg Bachmann and adapted for the screen by Elfriede Jelinek. Starring Isabelle Huppert, it is set in Vienna and tells of a writer torn between her lover and husband. Schroeter's first film from another source was attacked by feminist critics who felt he had betrayed the book by, according to a leading German feminist writer, Alice Schwarzer, "trivialising sexual violence". But Schroeter, never interested in the world outside the one of his imagination, remained true to himself by seeing the character, known only as The Woman, as the embodiment of all desire or as the mimetic ideal.

this made me quite curious about what was the reception of Werner's oeuvre in feminist circles and what was his possible response (if there was any) — in any case, i am quite curious to read Alice Schwarzer's article (if it is available).
2.2.4/ related to my fresh new THE PILOT OF THE BOMBER viewing, i have to mention also the following...
i already said before that being raised in a totalitarian state (where doublethink was in full bloom) made me biased against conventional storytelling. whenever i watch a narrative film that is missing internal monologues (or asynchronous sound) i feel i am deprived of the substantial part of the tale. it has become deeply ingrained within my juvenile brain that what ppl explicitly say and what they think might be vastly different and thus only watching a film where protagonists utter something and don't reveal their (possibly contradictory) thoughts (alongside their replicas) is for me hard to follow (such narratives seem to me near pointless — highly deficient). thus i like about f.e. THE PILOT OF THE BOMBER (and some other films by Werner Schroeter where asynchronous sound is used) that i can see protagonists moving their lips one way (they say something that is not audible) but i hear something different (from the soundtrack). thus i feel comfortable that the bullshit part of the replicas was omitted (only moving lips are left) but the substantial (the different) part of what protagonists have on their mind i can hear. if narrative structures are built this way, i perceived it as something familiar and i can easily follow such storytelling (i am used to it). btw. it is also one of the reasons i loved LAOCOON & SONS by Ulrike Ottinger (it is also an asynchronous sound tale).
2.2.5/ on the other hand, while watching THE PILOT OF THE BOMBER i was also thinking about the following reason that prevents me to fully embrace most of Werners' films (and consider them all outstanding, as f.e. PALERMO OR WOLFSBURG)...
i would prefer if the "high camp" tinge of most of Werner's films would be treated slightly differently. i like about f.e. CANNIBALS (Manoel de Oliveira) that "campy" part of the tale is not advertised directly by protagonists — they are the whole time dead serious while doing all their "campy" antics. Werner's "campiness" is more straightforward and is often slipping into caricature (which is a bit less intriguing to me than a "camp" that is dead serious).

3/ plan to watch for the poll (for sure) THE KINGDOM OF NAPLES, ARGILA, JOHANNAS DREAM, TWO, THE ROSE KING (and maybe also) THE DEATH OF MARIA MALIBRAN, and GOLDFLOCKEN.

4/ contributed to the subs pots of THE LAUGHING STAR, THE BLACK ANGEL, COUNCIL OF LOVE, HIMMEL HOCH, CARLA.
4.1/ i regret, i can't watch Werner's films from Mexico, Philippines, and Argentina — THE BLACK ANGEL (Mexico), THE LAUGHING STAR (Philippines), FOR EXAMPLE, ARGENTINA (Argentina).
4.2/ i didn't watch yet a single film by Rosa von Praunheim but now i would really like to watch his A VIRUS KNOWS NO MORALS and Werner's COUNCIL OF LOVE. these two films about politics & epidemics (1980s aids, 1490s syphilis) might be quite interesting to watch in our post-epidemics times (i guess).

5/ i will proly not get to watching WHITE JOURNEY

One of Werner Schroeter’s most important and inventive works, this threadbare evocation of Jean Genet’s notorious Querelle depicts the erotic adventures of two sailors through the world’s seaports in the manner of a cut-rate silent movie.

but i got quite intrigued by the following trivia...

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2010/a ... r-obituary

In 1982, Schroeter suffered a great disappointment. He had long cherished making a film of Jean Genet's homoerotic novel Querelle de Brest when Fassbinder managed to get the rights and the money to direct it. Schroeter felt that Fassbinder had stolen it from him and hated the film. (It turned out to be Fassbinder's last work before his death, aged 38.)

One scene (in "Night", 2002) in a tawdry nightclub where Huppert sings a song appears to be a belated reconciliatory tribute to Fassbinder's Querelle.

in the past, i watched Fassbinder's QUERELLE because it was mentioned in the book "Chromatic Cinema: A History of Screen Color" (by Richard Misek) — mentioned there due to its remarkablele use of color.

[wba]

Only seen two (DEUX and PALERMO ODER WOLFSBURG) but both were nothing special, so I pass.

[john ryan]

Seen 2

1. Malina

[sally]

seen 4


palermo or wolfsburg
the death of maria malibran


was very upset with malina as it was my favourite novel for decades and my dream man was literally always malina (or nikolai stavrogin) and schroeter's version was just dreadful, huppert totally wrong. it is due to this film that i have never felt inclined to read jelinek

[ole dole doff]

i didn't read Malina — if i will ever go to rewatch the film, i will read the book first.
it seems there are (at least) two more (feminist) articles (besides that by Alice Schwarzer) about the film adaptation (but none of them accessible — at least i can't get to them).
however, kg offers something called "Boris Manner - Interview with Elfriede Jelinek (on Ingeborg Bachmann) (1991)"

In this 20-minutes-interview Elfriede Jelinek talks about Ingeborg Bachmann. It is an excerpt of the 1991 film 'Der Fall Ingeborg Bachmann' by Boris Manner and was released as an extra to the recent release of 'Malina', directed by Werner Schroeter and written by Elfriede Jelinek (screenplay).

--------------------

besides, i see there is a documentary about WS called "Mondo Lux: The Visual Worlds of Werner Schroeter" (Elfi Mikesch, 2011)
https://letterboxd.com/film/mondo-lux-t ... schroeter/

and also a memoir (but i don't expect to read it prior the "SCFZ poll: Werner Schroeter 2.0")

[ole dole doff]

THE KINGDOM OF NAPLES (1978)

is a chronicle (spanning from 1943 till 1972) that is more complex and conventional than its THE PILOT OF THE BOMBER counterpart.


Catholicism and Communism in a queer perspective.


"Palermo" still rules over "Naples".

[ole dole doff]

THE CASE OF INGEBORG BACHMANN (Boris Manner, 1990)
(in sum 83 min) ... 20 min long excerpt in Res.



-------------------------------------------------
btw. "malina" means in Czech/Slovak "raspberry" https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malina
in Polish too https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malina_(ro%C5%9Blina)
plus (proly) in some other Slavic languages.

[brian d]

seen 3

der rosenkönig
der tod der maria malabran

[rischka]

i have only seen one but i might watch some!

[nrh]

https://cinema-scope.com/columns/column ... schroeter/

[greennui]

Still waiting for his Salome to get subs on kg.

[greennui]

i have only seen one but i might watch some!

Malibran!

[wba]

btw. "malina" means in Czech/Slovak "raspberry" https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malina
in Polish too https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malina_(ro%C5%9Blina)
plus (proly) in some other Slavic languages.

Yeah, in Slovene too.

[sally]

my quick note to say i did not mean to MALign schroeter's other films, i enjoyed the rest i've seen very much (altho perpetually confused with w. nekes for some reason and was quite prepared to vote for T-Wo-Men in this poll)

the malina meaning raspberry thing is cruel. did bachmann know this do we think? it fatally undermines the doom-hot sexiness of the impenetrable man in her book and turns him into farce

[greennui]

Achingly Memorable: Magdalena Montezuma
Montezuma’s true platform was Werner Schroeter’s non-linear, elegiac films where her sculptural face conveyed a kind of semiotic narrative.

Magdalena Montezuma (nee Erika Kluge) was a German experimental film actress. A muse to New German Cinema filmmaker, Werner Schroeter, Montezuma drifted through the films of Rainer Werner Fassbinder, Ulrike Ottinger, Rosa Von Praunhiem and Frank Ripploh. She played nurses, transsexuals, kings, party guests, mothers and baroque divas. With a striking face to match her flamboyant name, Montezuma achieved a certain, cultish notoriety until her untimely death from cancer at age 41. Schroeter hastily began production on his film The Rose King for the actress, shooting in her final months, as Montezuma longed to capture this energy, “to die on the set.”

She pops up in the first Fassbinder film I ever saw: Beware of a Holy Whore. The film assembles a slew of Fassbinder regulars (Hanna Schygulla, Kurt Raab, Ingrid Caven, Ulli Lommel) and some very fine German auteurs (Margarethe Von Trotta, Schroeter) as they act, drink, and collapse on a film shoot in Spain. There’s a lot of displacement going on—Fassbinder is in the autobiographical film about filming, though he plays the production manager, Sascha. And Montezuma, playing actress Irm (Hermann, one presumes), shoulders the blow of Fassbinder’s vehement misogynies. Heavily painted (as was her custom) Montezuma springs from Schroeter’s arms, throwing herself upon the Fassbinder surrogate: Jeff (Lou Castel). He strikes her repeatedly and she collapses into an abject bundle, howling as she falls to the tiled floor.

As this character, Montezuma manages to embody Fassbinder’s crew of “happily victimized” women. A more quintessential Montezuma can be glimpsed in her final scene in the film, as she rides away from some Spanish isle in shame, cast away from the production. Swaying in the boat and giving the picturesque landscape a run for its money, Montezuma’s architectural face becomes pliable, bursting with tremulous emotions. Opera music blares—it’s the only kind that really suits her. She slowly rocks back and forth. Her performance in that film made a lasting impact on me, though I mistook her for a minor actor, since she appeared in few other Fassbinder films.

When I began to recognize her in other experimental German films of the period, I started to connect the dots. Ottinger made her her Freak Orlando, in the film of the same name, where Montezuma dithers between genders and lovers, rallying armies and snuggling up with Siamese twins whilst covered in scales. Nefarious bad boy Rosa Von Praunhiem gave Montezuma a role respective of her histrionic caliber—the Lady Macbeth in his 1971 opera staging. I can think of no less of a nurturing figure, so it’s with an ironic arch of those painted-on eyebrows that Montezuma nurses Frank Ripploh, as he straddles gynecological stirrups in Taxi Zum Klo. Inspecting his recent outbreak of anal warts, the doctor inserts a metal probe inside the actor/director and Montezuma assures/glares, “You see, nothing to it.”

But Montezuma’s true platform was Schroeter’s non-linear, elegiac films where her sculptural face conveyed a kind of semiotic narrative. Each curled lip and trembling eyebrow imbued meaning into these lush tableau vivants. She is the eponymous diva in his breakthrough The Death of Maria Malibran, singing to an out-of-sync tune, disembodied from speech, even time itself. With her unique features and severe acting style, she steals the scene from her fabulous co-stars—Fassbinder regular Ingrid Caven and Candy Darling. Hers is a strange kind of stardom—made all the more esoteric now that these films suffer from a lack of distribution, but her Germanic countenance is achingly memorable in every inch of vintage celluloid.

https://www.slantmagazine.com/film/achi ... montezuma/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkLTvpg3qSg

[ole dole doff]

MONDO LUX: THE VISUAL WORLDS OF WERNER SCHROETER (Elfi Mikesch, 2011)
https://letterboxd.com/film/mondo-lux-t ... schroeter/

the film doesn't provide extensive analyses of WS's films but there are plenty of interesting remarks or views.



photographer Digne Meller Marcovicz (1934-2014) appears (among other ppl) in the film.
she made the picture that is on the cover of WS's memoir (viz above viewtopic.php?p=32793#p32793 ) and also made the following claim (about WS being her "hobby")...


at first, i thought i never heard her name before.
but as i was quick-checking her oeuvre and noticed some photos of Heidegger, her name started to become somewhat familiar and then i figured out she is the lady who photographed Heidegger inside his off-town cottage/cabin.
i got familiar with those photographs while reading the architectural monograph called "Heidegger's Hut". i like that book.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/207 ... gger_s_Hut
https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/heideggers-hut

WB also mentions (among other things) in the film Schoenberg's composition called "Erwartung" (Expectation).

https://youtu.be/P6PKIraXpIk

His (Schoenberg's) most extreme experiment in this regard was Erwartung (Expectation), a monodrama for soprano and orchestra on a text by Marie Pappenheim. This was a completely unique creation that attempts to portray the interior monologue of a woman waiting to meet her lover in a forest. Schoenberg himself said that the work could be understood as a nightmare scenario -- the entire reality exists in the woman's mind on a purely psychological level. There is no realistic time frame -- past, present, and future are blurred and the setting itself remains only suggestive and indistinct. Upon her discovery of her lover's murdered body (and there is some hint that she herself may have been the murderer), the unnamed woman proceeds through a confused and disturbed series of emotions as she remembers their love, his betrayal with another, to a strange sense of exhausted reconciliation.

btw. i noticed Elfi Mikesch was born on May 31 (tomorrow), the same day as R.W. Fassbinder (1940 vs. 1945).
so, to celebrate her birthday gonna place it in Res.

[rischka]

i have only seen one but i might watch some!

Malibran!

i've got malibran and der rosenkonig

[ole dole doff]

ARGILA (1969)

Argila is Schroeter’s experiment with split-screen cinema. In two images side-by-side, a love triangle plays out as two women, one older and more desperate, vie for the affection and attention of a mostly passive young man. The play between left and right, black-and-white and color, simultaneity and seriality recalls Warhol’s similar use of split-screen, as in Outer and Inner Space.

this film offers the viewer not only a love triangle combined with split-screen but also repetitive narrations.

[ole dole doff]

JOHANNAS DREAM (1975)

this charming movie (gonna rank it high!) is no less abundant with repetitive narrations.



and it is no less nurturing than the whipped cream or the Sweet (whipped) Lord.

[rischka]

greennui knows what i like

[flip]

remarkablele use of color.

ickykino, you can pick our next director if you like!

[ole dole doff]

considering my own countrymen, maybe Jaromil Jireš might be popular enough??? (if counting right, seen 15 — subtitled 3)
plus last time, i was suggesting as the second option Angela Schanelec and we didn't count her viewings (i have seen 6 — but i would watch 3-4 more for the poll).
so, one (any) of these two would be great.

[wba]

seen 1 by Jires and 3 by Schanelec

[ofrene]

6 Schanelec

[greennui]

greennui knows what i like

Wish I knew my own taste as well as yours!

[Monsieur Arkadin]

Only seen 1.

Malena

Really hoping to see Willow Springs soon though.